EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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This is wear it fails. Norway on the other hand don't tax any EV's only Fossil which increases the incentive. No wonder there are so many E-Trons and Tesla's in Norway 
The Mache-e rwd has enough power for its weight(vs id3/enyaq/kona/leaf), if you have much more power/AWD it's writing cheques (currently) heavy ev's can't deliver on curvy roads; build quality/infotainment/space tick, versus opposition, and, there, $35K not much more id3/enyaq/kona/leaf.
They still seem better value in the USA - ford taking a lower margin ?
They still seem better value in the USA - ford taking a lower margin ?
It really isn't, there is a $7,500 tax credit (you need to have a $7,500 federal income tax bill to get this) and the price is before taxes.
I set my location to Sacramento California and the actual price you pay is $42,895 + $1,100 document and delivery fee + $3,850 sales tax (8.75%) + plus $500 registration fee + $60 plate transfer fee. The amount you have to hand over to the dealer and the government is $48,405 / £39,500 to drive the car away. The advertised price is a complete red herring.
You can then get up to $7,500 back from the federal government at the end of the year but you can only get as much back as your federal income tax bill and to get the full amount back you needed to have earnt at least $66,000 / £54,000. The US rebate on EV's completely favours high earners, the more you earn, the more you benefit. Those benefitting from the full $7500 probably didn't need it and would have bought it anyway but that is a different conversation.
Where as in the UK the 'on the road price' is £37,350 after the plug in car grant which ford are listing as £3000. So the actual price is £40,350 or about £850 more than the US which isn't that different. I also used XE.com for the exchange rate and one one really gets that so that would cover the difference.
This is for the absolute base spec of the car.
Where are the EU cars actually made? If they mare made in the USA they'll attract a 10% tariff on import and cost more to ship to the EU.
I set my location to Sacramento California and the actual price you pay is $42,895 + $1,100 document and delivery fee + $3,850 sales tax (8.75%) + plus $500 registration fee + $60 plate transfer fee. The amount you have to hand over to the dealer and the government is $48,405 / £39,500 to drive the car away. The advertised price is a complete red herring.
You can then get up to $7,500 back from the federal government at the end of the year but you can only get as much back as your federal income tax bill and to get the full amount back you needed to have earnt at least $66,000 / £54,000. The US rebate on EV's completely favours high earners, the more you earn, the more you benefit. Those benefitting from the full $7500 probably didn't need it and would have bought it anyway but that is a different conversation.
Where as in the UK the 'on the road price' is £37,350 after the plug in car grant which ford are listing as £3000. So the actual price is £40,350 or about £850 more than the US which isn't that different. I also used XE.com for the exchange rate and one one really gets that so that would cover the difference.
This is for the absolute base spec of the car.
Where are the EU cars actually made? If they mare made in the USA they'll attract a 10% tariff on import and cost more to ship to the EU.
surprsingly average USA wage is >63K$, uk just 40K$ ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage; I wonder if their EV credit is more equitable than UK allowing company purchases to have a 0%bik ?
UK (eu?) buyers are also pre-occupied by options - amg line, M package, in preference to CC's , so base spec is not too ignominious in my eyes, maybe you have to bow to that disposition though if you want to resell the car here/uk.
UK (eu?) buyers are also pre-occupied by options - amg line, M package, in preference to CC's , so base spec is not too ignominious in my eyes, maybe you have to bow to that disposition though if you want to resell the car here/uk.
Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed the large price difference in the US, between the advertised and actual drive away cost.
Similar investing strategy here too especially in the following few days. The one car out selling Tesla in China is a tiny $4000 dollar car (after incentives) for urban use only so not quite in the same category. Tesla have stated previously they have battery supply for next year excluding their own 4680 production lines that will hopefully start to ramp up through next year.
We’ve just done a free trade deal with México so no WTO 10% tariff on these. Also no tariffs on anything made in the UK going to Mexico.
caught my eye that the new mirai could be 36K$ too;
I assume it wouldn't be much use in the UK though until Boris+edf pull their fingers out.
Definitely a flagship design, in that red, surprised it is nonetheless 1900kg, not sure if the front grill has a very functional purpose, or purely a design feature.
I assume it wouldn't be much use in the UK though until Boris+edf pull their fingers out.
Definitely a flagship design, in that red, surprised it is nonetheless 1900kg, not sure if the front grill has a very functional purpose, or purely a design feature.
I really don’t think it matters given there are only a handful of models available. Your only buying it because it is a FCEV not because it’s an SUV.
Given they literally have to give away the fuel so people rent them (it’s actually more expensive than petrol), it shows how far behind BEVs they really are. No doubt they also lose money on every sale before the fuel is even taken into account.
Given they literally have to give away the fuel so people rent them (it’s actually more expensive than petrol), it shows how far behind BEVs they really are. No doubt they also lose money on every sale before the fuel is even taken into account.
thinking - the fuel cell even with the new increase is only some 180bhp, was it, so may, yet, not be sufficiently powerful to haul an suv carcass.
Which is why you have a picture of Fredo Corleone...
I love diesel, but not the whole black smoke thing. That’s unburnt fuel. Which would make Rudolf spin in his grave.
Collecting my first BEV on Tuesday and putting it straight to the test with a 150mile trip home from the dealership.
I'm pretty clueless on the charging in the wild arrangements, it seems that there's lots of various schemes and methods as opposed to one overall integrated network yet. However, I'm assured it's all pretty simple?
Anyhow, excited to be coming from an old ICE to the "future"
I'm pretty clueless on the charging in the wild arrangements, it seems that there's lots of various schemes and methods as opposed to one overall integrated network yet. However, I'm assured it's all pretty simple?
Anyhow, excited to be coming from an old ICE to the "future"
Collecting my first BEV on Tuesday and putting it straight to the test with a 150mile trip home from the dealership.
I'm pretty clueless on the charging in the wild arrangements, it seems that there's lots of various schemes and methods as opposed to one overall integrated network yet. However, I'm assured it's all pretty simple?
Anyhow, excited to be coming from an old ICE to the "future"
You need (as a bare minimum) the following apps and accounts;
Pod-point
Polar Plus (now BP Pulse)
ChargePoint
Shell Recharge
Vend Electric
and (sometimes) My Alfa Power
Instavolt and Genie let you just use your debit or credit card.
It is MUCH better than it used to be but the first couple of times you use these chargers ‘in the wild’ it’s a voyage of discovery. And naturally, just as you’d never roll up at a petrol station on fumes, make sure you have a bit in the battery to get you to the alternate because when you roll up and find it’s iced, already in use or just plain broken, you need to get to the next one.
Its fine, you just need to plan your journey. Which means you need “A Better Route Planner” and you need Zap Map to tell you where the chargers are. If you bought the Ioniq as discussed then you can probably make it home (150 miles) without charging if you use Eco mode and drive at the speed limit.
Enjoy!
Soldato
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- 19 Oct 2008
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It's more like back to the future? Finally perfected something enough to be useful for transportation that first appeared in the 1830'sCollecting my first BEV on Tuesday and putting it straight to the test with a 150mile trip home from the dealership.
I'm pretty clueless on the charging in the wild arrangements, it seems that there's lots of various schemes and methods as opposed to one overall integrated network yet. However, I'm assured it's all pretty simple?
Anyhow, excited to be coming from an old ICE to the "future"
It's more like back to the future? Finally perfected something enough to be useful for transportation that first appeared in the 1830's
Well given battery technology has existed in some from since sometime around 150 BC, perfecting somethings take time, and the words perfecting is problematic in itself since nothing is perfect, only better than the previous iteration.
Like it or not electrically powered vehicles are the future, regardless how the power is stored initially, and you have to be utterly blinkered to think otherwise.
Soldato
- Joined
- 19 Oct 2008
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- 6,064
Yep, I just still find it amusing talking about storing electricity in batteries to power motors as the future
. Will be good to see how things evolve. A way to generate power onboard has to be a goal I think, at least as one method of electrically powering vehicles.I like the thought of a fuel cell that's the size of a shoebox and lasts 10k miles and can be swapped out in a few mins.
I am converted but probably won't get an EV for next daily. Would be tempted now if found something suitable. An i3 or similar size/weight/quality and 200+ mile motorway range (ideally 250-300).