EV general discussion

jpaul · 2 Jan 2021 at 12:21

WJA96 said:
What's wrong with the e-20(0)8 - Interior (I accept that's a matter of taste), range/efficiency.

the lexus/55Kwhr seems to have coined the phrase urban-bev which may meet many needs, like mini

BMW i3 had already significantly increased prices for 2021 without knowing the actual brexit deal;
even if eu manufacturers can satisfy the 40% bev, local content requirement, difficult to believe the 10% duty on china imports will prevent them taking over,
ok they need to build customer confidence, dealer networks, and maybe get uk/ce certification.

WJA96 · 2 Jan 2021 at 12:27

I agree on the Chinese cars. Look at the MG range. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with either of the BEV MGs and the 5 has about enough range to be useful as a company car. I could see me using one of those instead of a small van. Which raises the question - why are BEV vans so expensive?

DarrenM343 · 2 Jan 2021 at 16:04

jpaul said:
the lexus/55Kwhr seems to have coined the phrase urban-bev which may meet many needs, like mini

BMW i3 had already significantly increased prices for 2021 without knowing the actual brexit deal;
even if eu manufacturers can satisfy the 40% bev, local content requirement, difficult to believe the 10% duty on china imports will prevent them taking over,
ok they need to build customer confidence, dealer networks, and maybe get uk/ce certification.

What kind of price increases for the i3? Has anyone purchased one new recently? What kind of deals out there?
Looked around a few used i3's at my local dealer and must admit I'm actually quite keen to try one. Elderly parents could easily ride in it too, with one using the suicide rear doors for easy access. A few they have are 2019's at £26700, one a low spec i3S with 5000 or so miles and one a higher milage but better spec i3. Both same price.

Testing a GR Yaris soon, completely different car, and will see how I feel about that first. i3 doesn't really have the range I would like but having said that, I've spent two years now either working with clients from home or a 90 mile round trip 3 or 4 days a week and could always keep second car just in case need to long haul it again for a while.

Ben Cole · 4 Jan 2021 at 20:42

WJA96 said:
Don't get me started on the Kona as a value proposition because it's rubbish.

What do you mean by this @WJA96 ?

b0rn2sk8 · 4 Jan 2021 at 20:54

Ben Cole said:
What do you mean by this @WJA96 ?

I think I can answer that. It's pretty expensive, it's really not that much cheaper than a Tesla SR+ for what is a pretty small and cheap car wrapped around a very good drivetrain. The Ionic is cheaper and has a better interior but it has a smaller battery.

The top of the range ICE version is £25k, I don't expect anyone pays that. The electric version is £38k after the grant, pretty much everyone pays this. That's a lot of fuel savings try and achieve.

WJA96 · 4 Jan 2021 at 21:36

b0rn2sk8 said:
I think I can answer that. It's pretty expensive, it's really not that much cheaper than a Tesla SR+ for what is a pretty small and cheap car wrapped around a very good drivetrain. The Ionic is cheaper and has a better interior but it has a smaller battery.

The top of the range ICE version is £25k, I don't expect anyone pays that. The electric version is £38k after the grant, pretty much everyone pays this. That's a lot of fuel savings try and achieve.

I couldn’t have put it better. It’s a great car but it’s massively over-priced. It really only makes sense as a HEAVILY incentivised company car. And even then if there was a broader choice I don’t think it would get as many buyers as it does.

What it has done is get a huge number of company car drivers into Hyundai’s who are ripe targets for the new Ioniq 5, 6 and 7 when they launch. And this is the first car I’ve had in years that I’m utterly confident it won’t break down or anything will fall off. And you couldn’t say that about the Tesla I had. Everything felt like it would fall off. It didn’t, but it felt like it.

jpaul · 4 Jan 2021 at 22:07

b0rn2sk8 said:
it's really not that much cheaper than a Tesla SR+ for what is a pretty small and cheap car wrapped around a very good drivetrain.

maybe - The poor ICE inherited traction control didn't sound good and not being able to put the power down, would need a test drive in the wet I guess.

DarrenM343 said:
What kind of price increases for the i3? Has anyone purchased one new recently? What kind of deals out there?

£38K was what bm said

jpaul said:
read earlier - double-whammy https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/ma...car-price-increase-irrespective-of-trade-deal

Jonnycoupe · 4 Jan 2021 at 22:18

WJA96 said:
I couldn’t have put it better. It’s a great car but it’s massively over-priced. It really only makes sense as a HEAVILY incentivised company car. And even then if there was a broader choice I don’t think it would get as many buyers as it does.

What it has done is get a huge number of company car drivers into Hyundai’s who are ripe targets for the new Ioniq 5, 6 and 7 when they launch. And this is the first car I’ve had in years that I’m utterly confident it won’t break down or anything will fall off. And you couldn’t say that about the Tesla I had. Everything felt like it would fall off. It didn’t, but it felt like it.

so it’s a loss leader for a brand increasing market share and getting people aware of the company products (they probably make money on it anyway)

Not sure the criticism is entirely relevant or justified? Knock yourself out though lads.

WJA96 · 4 Jan 2021 at 22:31

jpaul said:
maybe - The poor ICE inherited traction control didn't sound good and not being able to put the power down, would need a test drive in the wet I guess.

Don’t believe the journalists. If you mash the throttle on ANY of the Tesla’s (including the dual motors) they scrabble a bit. The Kona needs a gentle touch (and better tyres) to get it off the line in a hurry. The reason the e-Niro doesn’t get the same stick is they are built in Slovakia and wear Michelin tyres whereas the Korean built Kona gets Nexens. The Vauxhall Corsa e will sit there all day spinning it’s wheels if you just boot it. The iD3 is undriveable on snow, even with excellent snow tyres. And the brakes in the Model 3 Performance aren’t good enough for the acceleration in the hands of a bad driver pretending to be Stig Blomqvist

b0rn2sk8 · 4 Jan 2021 at 22:44

jpaul said:
£38K was what bm said

I'd much rather have a Kona than an i3 for £38k though....

Jonnycoupe said:
so it’s a loss leader for a brand increasing market share and getting people aware of the company products (they probably make money on it anyway)

Not really a loss leader - that's why it's so expensive and I doubt they lose money on it at £38k either. The incentives are mainly government lead not Hyundai, 0% BIK, 100% 1st year allowance etc. massively reduces the cost to operate for a company and its driver.

The reason they can sell it for so much is that despite it being a cheap car on the outside, nothing comes close to it's capabilities on the inside at a lower price (except the Nero which is about the same price). I think it launched at £36k (after the grant) and they had a year+ waiting list, like Tesla, they sell every single one they make without trying.

Ben Cole · 4 Jan 2021 at 23:00

Really? Nearly new Konas for around 30k. Don't see any model threes for that, in fact more like 40k.

WJA96 · 4 Jan 2021 at 23:12

Jonnycoupe said:
so it’s a loss leader for a brand increasing market share and getting people aware of the company products (they probably make money on it anyway)

Not sure the criticism is entirely relevant or justified? Knock yourself out though lads.

Ben Cole said:
Really? Nearly new Konas for around 30k. Don't see any model threes for that, in fact more like 40k.

There is a big push to clear out the stock of the current car before the facelift arrives in March. The facelift has a new more aero front (and they’ve ditched the wheel-arch cladding) so the WLTP range is well over 300 miles now and the new fully LCD dashboard looks very swish. I think everything else is the same though. So if you’re happy with the current car, see if you can lever a good deal out of your local agent.

WJA96 · 4 Jan 2021 at 23:14

And be careful of cheap ones that don’t have the BlueLink software. That’s quite new and REALLY useful.

Ben Cole · 4 Jan 2021 at 23:14

WJA96 said:
So if you’re happy with the current car, see if you can lever a good deal out of your local agent.

Bloody lockdown spoiling my fun

Ben Cole · 4 Jan 2021 at 23:51

WJA96 said:
And be careful of cheap ones that don’t have the BlueLink software. That’s quite new and REALLY useful.

I noticed that the infotainment had a different pattern of buttons so asked the dealer. TBH I considered the difference to be more a "nice to have" than "must have". What does it add that in your opinion is worthwhile?

WJA96 · 5 Jan 2021 at 01:45

Ben Cole said:
I noticed that the infotainment had a different pattern of buttons so asked the dealer. TBH I considered the difference to be more a "nice to have" than "must have". What does it add that in your opinion is worthwhile?

The ability to Pre-heat or cool the car (including defrost the windows and mirrors). The ability to monitor charging away from the car and the ability to review journeys on your phone. You can also lock and unlock it remotely.

The sat nav is better on the new ones, but I use Waze on CarPlay. Crucially for me, the newer ones will AC charge at 11kW and DC charge at 77kW whereas the older ones are 6.4kW AC. The newer ones are also slightly more efficient but it’s single digit percentages of an improvement.

RoboCod · 5 Jan 2021 at 05:04

Ben Cole said:
I noticed that the infotainment had a different pattern of buttons so asked the dealer. TBH I considered the difference to be more a "nice to have" than "must have". What does it add that in your opinion is worthwhile?

I find I use Bluelink daily. Sending my schedule to the car so it can preheat, or telling it to warm the seats and cabin just before I step out of work is great. Yesterday I'd walked in, hung my keys up and plonked myself down but forgot if I'd locked the car. Checked the app, locked it. Its just pure convenience but also battery saving with the preheat when plugged in.

WJA96 · 5 Jan 2021 at 06:41

RoboCod said:
I find I use Bluelink daily. Sending my schedule to the car so it can preheat, or telling it to warm the seats and cabin just before I step out of work is great. Yesterday I'd walked in, hung my keys up and plonked myself down but forgot if I'd locked the car. Checked the app, locked it. Its just pure convenience but also battery saving with the preheat when plugged in.

Its interesting that BlueLink lets you turn on the heated seats on the Ioniq. On the Kona it only turns on the heated rear screen, steering wheel and mirrors. There is a further defrost setting that heats the windscreen area.

RoboCod · 5 Jan 2021 at 06:42

WJA96 said:
Its interesting that BlueLink lets you turn on the heated seats on the Ioniq. On the Kona it only turns on the heated rear screen, steering wheel and mirrors. There is a further defrost setting that heats the windscreen area.

My apologies you're correct. It's everything but the seats!

jpaul · 5 Jan 2021 at 11:10

RoboCod said:
I find I use Bluelink daily. Sending my schedule to the car so it can preheat,

what's the energy use and time for a pre-heat - the 64K question

WJA96 said:
There is a big push to clear out the stock of the current car before the facelift arrives in March. The facelift has a new more aero front (and they’ve ditched the wheel-arch cladding) so the WLTP range is well over 300 miles now and the new fully LCD dashboard looks very swish. I think everything else is the same though. So if you’re happy with the current car, see if you can lever a good deal out of your local agent.

wheel arches are still faily obtrusive
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/hyund...ndai-kona-prices-and-specs-announced-pictures
but bonnet nicely panamera'ish ,
there must be significant cost(accident repair?) saving with these wheel arch designs versus other cars with single piece wing, or rear quarter panel.
...am I missing something ... is the insert all plastic, even if its now body coloured ?