EV general discussion

lordrobs said:
Of course I do. I don't then crack out my spreadsheet every tank of fuel and work out my cost per mile to the nearest 0.1p, that was my point. It's just something I've noticed, not just on here, that it seems to be quite... obsessive. Each to their own obviously but if cost per mile is that much of a worry then an EV probably isn't the best tool for the job unless there are extenuating circumstances that make it so much cheaper than running a cheap economical ICE.
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I don’t stress over EV spreadsheets or range. The above post I made was following some discussion about preheating, energy usage and cost, so just provided some info from my experience.

Since becoming an EV driver the first thing people ask who don’t own an EV is:
1) What’s the range
2) What does it cost to charge up

So it helps knowing this :)
 
SDK^ said:
I don’t stress over EV spreadsheets or range. The above post I made was following some discussion about preheating, energy usage and cost, so just provided some info from my experience.

Since becoming an EV driver the first thing people ask who don’t own an EV is:
1) What’s the range
2) What does it cost to charge up

So it helps knowing this :)
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That's fair enough, it wasn't really directed at you. I quoted your post as I wasn't sure if that was the cost to pre-heat the cabin (for comfort) or pre-heat the battery (which I assume helps with miles/kWh)

The guy at work probably unfairly skews my view of EV ownership with tales of updates and autopilot trying new and inventive ways of trying to kill him :D
 
Out of interest, what does it cost to charge up @SDK^ ?
I charge my i3 on the night tarif plugged into the wall socket of my garage. By my calulations, I pay roughly £200 to do 7,000 miles a year.
 
lordrobs said:
and autopilot trying new and inventive ways of trying to kill him
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programme last week was saying they have used Grand theft auto as a training aid for some of the autopilot systems, which sounded ominous,
and, similarly, purposed the CAPTCHAS with road furniture pictures
 
Simon said:
Tax /NI is lower/similar than UK unless im missing something?

But dont you think its ironic talking about leaders in EV adoption when its all funded by oil ?
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Income tax rates are only a small part of the tax puzzle and different rules in different nations means just looking at the % isn’t a good comparison. For example two countries have similar average wages and both charge 20% basic rate of income tax. Country A has a personal allowance of £5k, country B has an allowance of £15k, the average person on country A will pay significantly more tax.

Having a look at tax as a % of GDP is one way you can look at it. In Norway it’s 39.9%, in the U.K. it’s 33%. Remember that Norway is also more productive (has a higher GDP per capita) and wages are far higher. Not looking to get into a tax debate so I’ll leave it there.

Yes - but how does the phrase go, don’t **** where you eat?

mjt said:
Don't forget they have a tiny population (just over 5m now) compared to the UK so it's really not comparable.


The problem is the UK can't really do a "tax incentive" when VED is absolute peanuts. In Norway we're talking potentially tens of thousands of pounds per vehicle. What is it in the UK? £500 max?
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Surely you just increase VED or some other levy on new ICE cars to create a disincentive. Politically unattractive mind but there isn’t anything stopping them from actually doing it other than fear of pensioners rebelling against them come the next election.

That said as I indicated before, the U.K. is actually doing alright but it could be better. I don’t think it would take much of a disincentive being applied to ICE to tip the balance the other was in terms of the economics (and thus most of the market). It wouldn’t need to be anything like what’s on offer in Norway. They’ll be forced to do it soon otherwise they’ll miss their own climate change targets.
 
mjt said:
Out of interest, what does it cost to charge up @SDK^ ?
I charge my i3 on the night tarif plugged into the wall socket of my garage. By my calulations, I pay roughly £200 to do 7,000 miles a year.
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Currently I’m not on an optimised EV charging rate, paying a flat rate of 12.5p per kWH. So a 0-100% charge for the 78 kWh battery cost me about £9.50. Currently I’m probably getting about 180 miles range as I was (when schools were open) doing very short trips from cold.
When the temperature gets warmer and work re-opens the office I expect I’ll get around 240-260 miles from a full charge. I will also switch energy supplier when my current contract expires in March.

I have the larger 20” option wheels which reduces the 295 WLTP range down to around 270 miles.
 
I’m charging mine tonight on a low SoC to try jedlix (still 10A granny charging).

https://www.jedlix.com/en/

oXlTjlk.png


basically the app will get to the target SoC by the set departure time. However it tunes when the charge is for low demand periods to maximise the renewables utilisation. During this smart charging the idea is I get 1p each kWh as cashback. Let’s see how it goes.
 
After having virtually decided on the Kona, today my local Nissan dealer contacted me and offered a very good PCP deal on a 62KWh Tekna.

I prefer the Kona but I've only driven the 40kwh leaf.

Worthy of consideration do you think? (Haven't really researched the leaf very much since preferring the kona on initial test drives)
 
Simon said:
Norway is a very rich country from oil profits and then investing it. Hence they can give massive subsidies to make EV so appealing.
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Not really. They’re the 21st richest by GDP (UK is 5th richest) but because of their massive progressive social spending (1st in the world) their people have the 15th highest per capita income. They have also invested massively in wind and hydro power, so they see themselves as a clean power nation.

Because of their geography and small-ish population almost everyone lives on the coast and they have relatively little freight transport as much of what they move goes by sea.

Once the oil and gas declines, and fishing remains heavily regulated Norway will have to develop other exports, which I have no doubt they will as a technologically advanced, well educated, nation. But by investing away from fossil fuel vehicles and into renewables powered vehicles Norway helps itself stay largely energy self-sufficient.
 
mjt said:
The problem is the UK can't really do a "tax incentive" when VED is absolute peanuts. In Norway we're talking potentially tens of thousands of pounds per vehicle. What is it in the UK? £500 max?
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The incentive for business is massive. 100% allowance against corporation tax in the first year. They’re literally giving them away to businesses. And that means there will be lots of 3-4 year old BEVs on the used market in 2023 and onwards. The relatively low running costs will then entice more cost-conscious private buyers in (many people only do a few hundred miles per month) and all of a sudden you have the demand and the changeover will happen.
 
WJA96 said:
The incentive for business is massive. 100% allowance against corporation tax in the first year. They’re literally giving them away to businesses. And that means there will be lots of 3-4 year old BEVs on the used market in 2023 and onwards. The relatively low running costs will then entice more cost-conscious private buyers in (many people only do a few hundred miles per month) and all of a sudden you have the demand and the changeover will happen.
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Ah fair enough, like here in Belgium then. The only reason I have an i3 is because I'm self-employed and costs on it can be deducted at 120%.

On a larger scale though, the difference in Norway is that it's for everyone, as their equivalent of VED is insane.
 
Ben Cole said:
After having virtually decided on the Kona, today my local Nissan dealer contacted me and offered a very good PCP deal on a 62KWh Tekna.

I prefer the Kona but I've only driven the 40kwh leaf.

Worthy of consideration do you think? (Haven't really researched the leaf very much since preferring the kona on initial test drives)
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The leaf is a much bigger car inside. It’s pretty efficient (not remotely as good as the Ioniq, e-Niro or Kona). But it’s on a CHaDEMo connector which means an adaptor on many Type 2 public chargers. They’re also bizarrely unfashionable (I blame EV Man on YouTube who had two I think and hasn’t got a good word to say about Nissan, Nissan dealers or the Leaf in general). I’m sure you’d be very happy in either car. But do the research. If they’re offering staggeringly good deals there will be a reason why.
 
WJA96 said:
But do the research. If they’re offering staggeringly good deals there will be a reason why.
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In the current environment if you see strong deals on an EV it will most likely be due to that manufacturer trying to get their supercredits up. :)
 
Brexit ? Although tekna seems to be built in usa, leaf is built here, and,
aren't we waiting to see which ev's fall (leaf specifically - earlier link) within allowed thresholds for percentage of battery and parts built in the uk, for duty free eu import.


edit:
More damage may still be done even with last week’s deal. Automakers including Nissan might struggle to qualify some UK-assembled models for tariff-free export to the EU as they evaluate whether they source enough of their components locally
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btw - can't the excel/number crunching ev owners extend their skills to downsizing bitmaps.
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
I'd steer away from a Leaf compared to a Kona.
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The rationale being? I’ve driven both and apart from the Nissan being even spectacularly worse value than the Kona if the deal is right I’d say it’s not a bad car. EV Man on YouTube doesn’t like the dealers and I have no experience of them so I couldn’t comment. That said, I really like my Kona. Especially now I’ve got my Frunk fitted and my bonnet lifters.
 
Sorry didn’t finish that post. Just the battery on cold UK temps and charging would be a going concern. Guess depends on the money payments
 
Exactly as above. I'd stopped considering it but the guy has run a number of quotes for me.

When comparing them against the automatically generated PCP quotes online which used 2.99APR they were 35-40% off the monthly payment. When looking at total ownership cost it's a discount of around 5k.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
I’m charging mine tonight on a low SoC to try jedlix (still 10A granny charging).

https://www.jedlix.com/en/

basically the app will get to the target SoC by the set departure time. However it tunes when the charge is for low demand periods to maximise the renewables utilisation. During this smart charging the idea is I get 1p each kWh as cashback. Let’s see how it goes.
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Does starting and stopping the charging like that cause issues for the battery longer term? I assume not as it's probably far less demanding than regen braking in that regard?

I had the same thought when I read an article about using EVs to balance out grid demand. In my (simple) mind I was initially thinking more charge / discharge cycles would be a bad thing for the battery?
 
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