MSI offers Re-Size BAR function ( SAM ) that works cross platform Nvidia / AMD 5000 chipset

[nvidiamd]

RTX IO leverages DS, but it changes the foundational process in that it cuts out the middle man (CPU and RAM) and loads the assets to the VRAM as the GPU is much better at decompression than the CPU (more cores). There are several benefits to this.

Come on Sony already did that, you talk about it like it is the next greatest thing on Earth. And they've done it without DirectStorage.
RTX IO is the same as SAM on AMD. A clever name used for a supported standard. If the cards are DX 10u compatible, they will all support Directstorage.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

interesting nvidia saying resizeable bar is supported on fermi and up cards. interesting to see how this pans out.

 

[Mesai]

Come on Sony already did that, you talk about it like it is the next greatest thing on Earth. And they've done it without DirectStorage.
RTX IO is the same as SAM on AMD. A clever name used for a supported standard. If the cards are DX 10u compatible, they will all support Directstorage.

You're joking right? Resizable BAR and DirectStorage are not the same thing.

 

[BS Dave]

The problem with RTX IO is the same as ray tracing. You need to have one of those cards to use it and presumably it'll have to be programmed into each game separately. So limited user base x extra work means it could end up like PhysX or DLSS 2.

If I was a developer I'd go for the standard everyone could use, unless Nvidia were making it rain.

Even then I wouldn't want to let down people on lower end systems and have a bunch of refunds because you only aimed at the top 20% of hardware (good PCs vs average PCs and last gen consoles) - I'm looking at you Cyberpunk

 

[BS Dave]

interesting nvidia saying resizeable bar is supported on fermi and up cards. interesting to see how this pans out.

Got a link? I'd love to have a read as a Pascal user.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

The problem with RTX IO is the same as ray tracing. You need to have one of those cards to use it /QUOTE]

another dig at the stock levels and availability

 

[Cyber-Mav]

Got a link? I'd love to have a read as a Pascal user.

no point, most say on those older architectures there will be a performance loss.

 

[BS Dave]

I actually wasn't thinking so much that, more price.

Also discounting ray tracing my Titan pascal is mostly good enough at 1440p

 

[BS Dave]

no point, most say on those older architectures there will be a performance loss.

most Nvidia salesmen?

 

[nvidiamd]

You're joking right? Resizable BAR and DirectStorage are not the same thing.

They are standards, one is in PCIE 3.0 specs, the other is in DX10u specs. So AMD or Nvidia are using names like SAM or RTX IO for marketing reasons.
Sony already has "RTX IO" implemented in PS5, Microsoft will have them once they enable DirectStorage this year and most likely AMD and Nvidia last gen cards will work the same with supported hard drives.
Read about UE5 "nanite" and Sony hard drive. It is the same thing

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

You said "I doubt it took that much work/resources", which means you think that RTX IO and MS DirectStorage are the same thing.

I think that RTX IO is built off of the work of MS direct storage with Nvidia adding their magic source to it.

None of this changes the foundational process of how the CPU, RAM and GPU interact with those assets - files still get loaded to the RAM to be decompressed by the CPU and then passed to the GPU, etc., DS just lets you do this way more effeciently and with better throughput.

RTX IO leverages DS, but it changes the foundational process in that it cuts out the middle man (CPU and RAM) and loads the assets to the VRAM as the GPU is much better at decompression than the CPU (more cores). There are several benefits to this.

As far as i know, sending data directly to VRAM is a direct storage feature.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

The problem with RTX IO is the same as ray tracing. You need to have one of those cards to use it and presumably it'll have to be programmed into each game separately. So limited user base x extra work means it could end up like PhysX or DLSS 2.

If I was a developer I'd go for the standard everyone could use, unless Nvidia were making it rain.

Even then I wouldn't want to let down people on lower end systems and have a bunch of refunds because you only aimed at the top 20% of hardware (good PCs vs average PCs and last gen consoles) - I'm looking at you Cyberpunk

Direct storage is based off of the Series X. In theory developers will need to do it for consoles so they could do it on PC as well. I think the biggest hurdle for direct storage is consistency of hardware across all PC devices. Devs might just say screw it and ignore the tech because they don't want to ignore people not running NVME drives.

 

[Mesai]

They are standards, one is in PCIE 3.0 specs, the other is in DX10u specs. So AMD or Nvidia are using names like SAM or RTX IO for marketing reasons.
Sony already has "RTX IO" implemented in PS5, Microsoft will have them once they enable DirectStorage this year and most likely AMD and Nvidia last gen cards will work the same with supported hard drives.

RTX IO uses the GPU, instead of the CPU, to decompress game files (this is possible because of DS), thereby improving throughput and reducing latency. SAM/Resizable BAR allows the CPU access to the VRAM, which improve latency and throughput.

Two different technologies that would work great together.

The latest consoles use DS, which improves throughput, but still use the CPU and RAM for game file processing - RTX IO cuts out this step.

 

[Mesai]

Direct storage is based off of the Series X. In theory developers will need to do it for consoles so they could do it on PC as well. I think the biggest hurdle for direct storage is consistency of hardware across all PC devices. Devs might just say screw it and ignore the tech because they don't want to ignore people not running NVME drives.

For now it'll be realtively limited for that exact reason. You'll see better loading times and a slight performance uplift with the supported hardware, but developers won't be able to take full advantage until it's more mainstream as there will be a significant impact on those who don't have the latest hardware.

I definitely won't be buying a new SSD until it becomes more mainstream.

 

[Mesai]

I think that RTX IO is built off of the work of MS direct storage with Nvidia adding their magic source to it.

Yep, DS allows RTX IO to do what it does. No point using the GPU to process files if the storage can't send them fast enough.

As far as i know, sending data directly to VRAM is a direct storage feature.

DS is purely related to the SSD; whether AMD/Nvidia/Developers decide to load it to RAM(traditional process) or VRAM directly(RTX IO), is up to them.

 

[nvidiamd]

RTX IO uses the GPU, instead of the CPU, to decompress game files (this is possible because of DS), thereby improving throughput and reducing latency. SAM/Resizable BAR allows the CPU access to the VRAM, which improve latency and throughput.

Two different technologies that would work great together.

The latest consoles use DS, which improves throughput, but still use the CPU and RAM for game file processing - RTX IO cuts out this step.

Who said RTX IO and SAM are doing the same thing? I said they are both clever names used for supported standards. Instead they can be called RBAR and DS. It is the same thing.
Sony PS5 GPU is doing exactly what "RTX IO" tells you. It eliminates the CPU by working directly with the hard drive - again read about UE 5 nanite technology and how the PS5 hard drive will be used in Unreal 5 games. Microsoft and hence Nvidia and AMD are a little behind but once Microsoft releases DirectStorage, they will do exactly the same thing. All of them.

 

[nvidiamd]

Here is from an interview with UE5 team:
https://www.gamesradar.com/were-abl...ssible-tomorrow-inside-epics-unreal-engine-5/

"
Sony, you see, had listened. PS5 was going to make Nanite possible. "It was three or four years ago at least when we started to talk with Mark Cerny about possibilities for the next generation," Sweeney says. Their discussion wasn't just about graphics, but about the growing realisation that storage architecture in game hardware – having to load data from a hard drive, the huge amounts of latency between mass storage and a processor – was a limiting factor in Epic's and all developers' future plans for game-making. The team at Epic received very early hardware access to the next-gen console, and the Sony collaboration has been far longer-running than the Microsoft one, Sweeney says, something which naturally influenced Epic's decision to reveal Unreal Engine 5 using PS5 instead of Xbox Series X.

"And Sony really did a fantastic job of implementing a new platform around that realisation that storage could be revolutionised," he continues. "PlayStation 5 is built not only on a huge body of flash memory, but also a very high bandwidth and low latency framework for accessing it, and for getting it to wherever you need for any type of work."

He describes how PS5 renders a texture highly efficiently, fetching it from the high-speed SSD decompressed, into video memory in the exact place it's needed. This is thanks to PS5's IO (or input-output) system, which according to Epic's VP of engineering Nick Penwarden, is "the major innovation with the next-generation console hardware. They have faster CPUs, they have faster GPUs, and that was really important to be able to achieve the visuals that we showed – but the biggest change across console generations is absolutely going to be the IO bandwidth that we're able to achieve with the SSDs that are in next-generation consoles."

So that would be "PS5 IO". They can use such a name since they don't work with DS standard but this is the same with what DS will do on MS consoles and Windows.

 

[Mesai]

Who said RTX IO and SAM are doing the same thing?

RTX IO is the same as SAM on AMD.

Instead they can be called RBAR and DS. It is the same thing.

Yes, SAM is an implementation of RBAR that AMD have optimised to suit their hardware(perfectly reasonable), but you still don't seem to understand that DS and RTX IO are not the same thing. DS ENABLES RTX IO i.e. the game needs to support DS to support RTX IO.

Just because a game supports DS, doesn't mean it uses the GPU to decompress the game files, that's a separate process/technology. UE 5 Nanite takes advantage of the increased throughput that DS provides to more heavily compress files and to swap said files in and out of memory faster, which is not possible without DS; whether the processing of those files happens in RAM or VRAM, or by the CPU or GPU is not DS, it's a different process.

 

[nvidiamd]

Read the whole thing. The same thing meaning using clever names for supported standards


.

 

[Hotwired]

Yeah well, you see how much hype you'll stir up with a feature listed as:

AMDs Compatibility Assurance And Driver Updates For Resizable BAR

Smart Access Memory sounds unknown and exciting and it's not as if the majority of the audience know any better anyway so pitching it enormously dumbed down is about right.