First "custom" loop - have I done something wrong?

[Mattr]

I've just built my first loop as a fun project, with the primary intention of being a cost effective way of reducing my loud graphics card - but my temperatures seem a tad high. My secondary intention was for fun, so as I'm no expert I wanted to throw this to you guys for some guidance. All parts at stock speeds and ambient temperature was between 19-21C.

Issues/questions

I learned a lot on this project, most of it from searching these forums, so thank you all. I'll add what I think are my current issues.

• Are these temperatures appropriate for the setup?
• The pump can only run at 2600rpm and pushes 100l/h. Is this adequate? (Kit wasn't strictly designed for cooling two parts)
• What is the solution to the fan RPM being linked to the CPU temperature? When I stress test the GPU I had to manually increase fan speed as the temperatures were only going up. Once I increased, they stabilised at around 77/78 hotspot. I've seen coolant temp being used - is this necessary/possible for my loop?

Main points aside, would you have done anything differently in my position? I was a total noob to watercooling when purchasing, so if I could go back I probably wouldn't buy a kit as I hate the CPU block mounting hardware.

PC specs

Ryzen 5 3600
Asus Prime B450m-a
2x8gb Corsair vengeance 3200mhz
Corsair RM750X
MSI mech OC RX5700XT
Corsair 4000D airflow

Cooling specs

Alphacool eissturm kit, containing:

• Radiator: NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper 240 mm
• CPU: NexXxoS XP³ Light
• Reservoir: Eisstation
• Pump: DC-LT 2600
• 8x Eiszapfen 13/10mm straight
• Tubing PVC 13/10 mm clear

2x120mm Thermaltake Pure A12 (pushing through radiator)
2x120mm Thermaltake Pure A12 (front intake)
Replaced 1000 ml Cape Kelvin Catcher with Mayhems eco X1 UV red
Bykski A-SP5700XT-X GPU block
Arctic MX-4 thermal paste on GPU/CPU

Fan curves for rad and intake

Setup

Temperatures

Prime95 blend test for 30 minutes. Minimum temperatures represent idle.

Furmark 1080p GPU stress test for 30 minutes. Again min temps = idle.
For comparison - on air cooling and ambient 26.2 (september) the hotspot max was 95 after only a minute.

Once again, thanks in advance.

Matt

 

[SS-89]

The issue is two fold I think if I've read your post correctly

1. You are only using a single 240mm slim rad to cool both a gpu and cpu. That's simply not enough.
2. Both furmark and prime95 are high stress on temps so will push higher than typical operating temps but I think the above is fundamental.

 

[ChocAndGray]

I'd agree with the above. You definitely need another rad in there for better temps or replace your current one with a bigger one. There's just not enough surface area to maximise heat dissipation.

But to answer whether the temperatures you're getting are appropriate, then yes they are given what you're using to cool your components.

That's a 4000d you're using right? So at most you can fit a 280mm rad up top and 360mm in the front. So there's room to improve.

It's your first time, you've done well. To be honest there's always things we look back on after our first time, either the components we wish we had bought instead, layout etc.

The next time round it'll be easier and you'll get even better results.

 

[mickyflinn]

Not enough radiators.

 

[Mattr]

The issue is two fold I think if I've read your post correctly

1. You are only using a single 240mm slim rad to cool both a gpu and cpu. That's simply not enough.
2. Both furmark and prime95 are high stress on temps so will push higher than typical operating temps but I think the above is fundamental.

This makes sense, watching the temperatures on the kind of games I play (GW2) it seems safe for now. Would you replace 240 with a 360 or add in a 240?

I'd agree with the above. You definitely need another rad in there for better temps or replace your current one with a bigger one. There's just not enough surface area to maximise heat dissipation.

But to answer whether the temperatures you're getting are appropriate, then yes they are given what you're using to cool your components.

That's a 4000d you're using right? So at most you can fit a 280mm rad up top and 360mm in the front. So there's room to improve.

It's your first time, you've done well. To be honest there's always things we look back on after our first time, either the components we wish we had bought instead, layout etc.

The next time round it'll be easier and you'll get even better results.

Thanks for your help. It is the 4000d - would you add in a 240 to front or swap 240 for 360?

I'm already looking forward to next time, and deciding all of my own fittings etc. Perhaps next year.

Not enough radiators.

Thank you!

 

[SirConfused]

Looks like your hardware is going to be pushing about 310-320W stock. A thick 360 would cover you but I'm not sure if you've got space in that case so maybe just chuck a mid size 360 in the front to give you a bit of headroom for upgrades.

 

[MikeTimbers]

Should be able to squeeze a 360 in the front if you turn your 240mm around. So go from the 5700XT to the rear conntecion on the 240mm, then out and down to the cpu, out to the front 360 and back to the pump.

 

[Mattr]

Looks like your hardware is going to be pushing about 310-320W stock. A thick 360 would cover you but I'm not sure if you've got space in that case so maybe just chuck a mid size 360 in the front to give you a bit of headroom for upgrades.

Thanks for this. Can I ask what the general rule is with wattage and rad requirements? I was told 120mm per component as a rough guide, however, does this assume 60mm thickness?

Should be able to squeeze a 360 in the front if you turn your 240mm around. So go from the 5700XT to the rear conntecion on the 240mm, then out and down to the cpu, out to the front 360 and back to the pump.

That’s a great idea flipping the 240 - many thanks!

 

[SirConfused]

Obviously not gospel as it's a single manufacturer, but here's a good explanation of things:
https://www.ekwb.com/blog/radiators-part-3-surface-thickness/
If you take a look around at the various WC part review sites you'll probably be able to find nearly anything you're interested in (most rads are derivatives/rebrands of things that have already been reviewed).

120mm per component is definitely too little these days. I'm pretty sure the rule of thumb used to be 120 per component + 120. That might still do you for mid-tier hardware but if you're looking at something like a new 3080 then you would have to run your fans pretty damn fast to keep that cool on even a 60mm thick 360.

 

[matt100]

There's a lot of hyperbole in here.

It really depends on what you're trying to achieve, I have a 3080 and 3600 in a loop with a single 280 and 2 fans, no case fans yet. It's my first custom loop in maybe 8 years but other than the quality and ease of blocks and fittings I don't see much has changed since cooling stuff like old core2 quads and 7/8 series Nvidia cards? They could get toasty too.

Temps are fine for me, the CPU tops out at about 75ish and I haven't even looked at the GPU, I know it's fine from experience, GPUs run hot and water stabilises them fine.

You may not have much overclocking headroom but you're certainly short of any damage so this "it's not enough you need more rads" seems odd to me.

One bit of advise, I was also worried about my temps a bit on the CPU, turned out a really simple tweak in Ryzen master to fix the clock speed and set the score to 1.25 rather than auto which was running up to over 1.4v took about 15c off my max, if you haven't already, worth a look at that.

But ultimately it's down to what you want to achieve, for me it's aesthetics and silence but if you want the ultimate low temps for some reason then I'd start investing in more cooling power but that defeats the object as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Jay85]

If you wanna see lower temps you really do need more radiator capacity. It's usually recommended 240mm per component with hotter components like a gpu requiring a 360 especially with the newer cards pumping out more than 300w.

Flow rate is more than adequate, that works out roughly 1.66/lm although you'll wanna look at getting less restrictive radiators if you decide to upgrade as there isn't a whole lot of headroom to keep the flow rate above 1/lm.

But as others have said, your temps are perfectly fine for what radiator space you have cooling the 2 major components. Extra rads will see the temps drop down lower and will also allow you to run lower fan speeds for a quieter system if thats what you are trying to achieve.

 

[SS-89]

There's a lot of hyperbole in here.

It really depends on what you're trying to achieve, I have a 3080 and 3600 in a loop with a single 280 and 2 fans, no case fans yet. It's my first custom loop in maybe 8 years but other than the quality and ease of blocks and fittings I don't see much has changed since cooling stuff like old core2 quads and 7/8 series Nvidia cards? They could get toasty too.

Temps are fine for me, the CPU tops out at about 75ish and I haven't even looked at the GPU, I know it's fine from experience, GPUs run hot and water stabilises them fine.

You may not have much overclocking headroom but you're certainly short of any damage so this "it's not enough you need more rads" seems odd to me.

One bit of advise, I was also worried about my temps a bit on the CPU, turned out a really simple tweak in Ryzen master to fix the clock speed and set the score to 1.25 rather than auto which was running up to over 1.4v took about 15c off my max, if you haven't already, worth a look at that.

But ultimately it's down to what you want to achieve, for me it's aesthetics and silence but if you want the ultimate low temps for some reason then I'd start investing in more cooling power but that defeats the object as far as I'm concerned.

There is no hyperbole at all the guy asked why his temps are higher than he anticipated being on water and the answer is he hasn't got sufficient rad surface area for heat dissipation. Nobody suggested he is running the risk of damaging his components. If he wants lower temps he needs more rad space. If he is fine with the temps then he can keep as is.

 

[matt100]

There is no hyperbole at all the guy asked why his temps are higher than he anticipated being on water and the answer is he hasn't got sufficient rad surface area for heat dissipation. Nobody suggested he is running the risk of damaging his components. If he wants lower temps he needs more rad space. If he is fine with the temps then he can keep as is.

Maybe hyperbole the wrong word and I get nobody suggested damage but considering this is his first time it's easy to get some excessive ideas in the head, folks come here for a bit of experience to be shared no?

You definitely need another rad in there for better temps or replace your current one with a bigger one. There's just not enough surface area to maximise heat dissipation.

He "definitely" doesn't. There "just" is enough surface area, this suggests there's something fundamentally wrong, ie it might fail.

Not enough radiators.

120mm per component is definitely too little these days.

Definitely again, definitely not definite.

It's usually recommended 240mm per component with hotter components like a gpu requiring a 360

A GPU requires a 360? Behave.

All I'm saying is being so black and white is not helpful.. how long until someone tells the poor chap now he's got 2 rads he needs to upgrade his pump?

Now you definitely need push pull on the fans..

etc.

Just saying there's nuance. His temps are well short of damage so now it's a trade off between additional hardware, fan speeds and overclocking headroom.

 

[Jay85]

Maybe hyperbole the wrong word and I get nobody suggested damage but considering this is his first time it's easy to get some excessive ideas in the head, folks come here for a bit of experience to be shared no?



He "definitely" doesn't. There "just" is enough surface area, this suggests there's something fundamentally wrong, ie it might fail.





Definitely again, definitely not definite.



A GPU requires a 360? Behave.

All I'm saying is being so black and white is not helpful.. how long until someone tells the poor chap now he's got 2 rads he needs to upgrade his pump?

Now you definitely need push pull on the fans..

etc.

Just saying there's nuance. His temps are well short of damage so now it's a trade off between additional hardware, fan speeds and overclocking headroom.

I did point out that IF he wanted LOWER TEMPS then yes more rad space is needed and at the end i DID say his system was fine as it is and is more than adequate. Don't take what i said out of context, it was only a suggestion .

 

[MikeTimbers]

The old adage about 120mm per component +1 hasn't changed. So for cpu and gpu, 3x120mm would be safer but even that is such a generic statement.

to answer your original questions.

• Are these temperatures appropriate for the setup? Probably about right considering the radiators and pump but very hard to be definitive sadly.
  
• The pump can only run at 2600rpm and pushes 100l/h. Is this adequate? (Kit wasn't strictly designed for cooling two parts) 100lph will be the freeflow rate. With two blocks and a rad, that number will be significantly reduced. However, so long as there is flow, the pump flowrate is not a massive influence. Ultimately it's been shown numerous times to have relatively little effect on cooling so long as there is flow at a "reasonable" rate.
  
• What is the solution to the fan RPM being linked to the CPU temperature? When I stress test the GPU I had to manually increase fan speed as the temperatures were only going up. Once I increased, they stabilised at around 77/78 hotspot. I've seen coolant temp being used - is this necessary/possible for my loop? This will depend on your motherboard a lot. Some BIOS allow setting fan profiles according to other heat sources than the cpu but having them work off the gpu is more tricky. I don't know that card; on some of my Geforce cards the fan header is reasonably accessible and adapters can be purchased that convert the pcb header to a standard fan connector allowing fan control through Afterburner or the like. You could therefore have one fan off the mobo cpu header controlled through the BIOS and one from the gpu controlled by the gpu.

 

[Mattr]

One bit of advise, I was also worried about my temps a bit on the CPU, turned out a really simple tweak in Ryzen master to fix the clock speed and set the score to 1.25 rather than auto which was running up to over 1.4v took about 15c off my max, if you haven't already, worth a look at that.

But ultimately it's down to what you want to achieve, for me it's aesthetics and silence but if you want the ultimate low temps for some reason then I'd start investing in more cooling power but that defeats the object as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for the tip with Ryzen master! I’ll look into that this afternoon. I appreciate your alternate view point and candour, ultimately I do want a quieter system so adding in a rad will hopefully help. I’d also like some capacity to upgrade in the future I guess.

Extra rads will see the temps drop down lower and will also allow you to run lower fan speeds for a quieter system if thats what you are trying to achieve.

This sounds good to me. I’m not a huge fan of system noise!

There is no hyperbole at all the guy asked why his temps are higher than he anticipated being on water and the answer is he hasn't got sufficient rad surface area for heat dissipation. Nobody suggested he is running the risk of damaging his components. If he wants lower temps he needs more rad space. If he is fine with the temps then he can keep as is.

Thanks for the reassurance, it’s always a tetchy time with your first experience of something new. Which is why I appreciate everyone in this forum chipping in. I wasn’t happy with where Furmark was taking the GPU in my brief stress testing. I know AMD say “110°c hotspot is fine” but my temps weren’t stabilising at all until I raised fan speeds to unacceptable noise levels. Therefore, this indicates to me that I’m walking the line in terms of rad capacity.

Maybe hyperbole the wrong word and I get nobody suggested damage but considering this is his first time it's easy to get some excessive ideas in the head, folks come here for a bit of experience to be shared no?

I appreciate that Matt.

I did point out that IF he wanted LOWER TEMPS then yes more rad space is needed and at the end i DID say his system was fine as it is and is more than adequate. Don't take what i said out of context, it was only a suggestion .

I got your drift, I’m aware I’m not damaging the parts but as said above, noise is important so it’s a key factor in adding a rad.

The old adage about 120mm per component +1 hasn't changed. So for cpu and gpu, 3x120mm would be safer but even that is such a generic statement.

to answer your original questions.

• Are these temperatures appropriate for the setup? Probably about right considering the radiators and pump but very hard to be definitive sadly.
  
• The pump can only run at 2600rpm and pushes 100l/h. Is this adequate? (Kit wasn't strictly designed for cooling two parts) 100lph will be the freeflow rate. With two blocks and a rad, that number will be significantly reduced. However, so long as there is flow, the pump flowrate is not a massive influence. Ultimately it's been shown numerous times to have relatively little effect on cooling so long as there is flow at a "reasonable" rate.
  
• What is the solution to the fan RPM being linked to the CPU temperature? When I stress test the GPU I had to manually increase fan speed as the temperatures were only going up. Once I increased, they stabilised at around 77/78 hotspot. I've seen coolant temp being used - is this necessary/possible for my loop? This will depend on your motherboard a lot. Some BIOS allow setting fan profiles according to other heat sources than the cpu but having them work off the gpu is more tricky. I don't know that card; on some of my Geforce cards the fan header is reasonably accessible and adapters can be purchased that convert the pcb header to a standard fan connector allowing fan control through Afterburner or the like. You could therefore have one fan off the mobo cpu header controlled through the BIOS and one from the gpu controlled by the gpu.

Thanks for answering these! I’ll look in to the tips regarding the GPU.

As a brief update, I have one more day off work tomorrow before starting my new job on Monday - thus having less time to complete this project. Therefore, this morning I purchased an EK 360mm rad (only slim will fit in front, as stated above by other users), EK CPU block (as stated above I despise the mounting hardware of the SP3 light) and a bunch of fittings to make it all fit better. Should arrive tomorrow - thanks OCUK! I’ve mixed a couple of brands but it’s all g1/4” and metals are the same - so from my research this is okay. Unfortunately, Alphacool are pretty much out of stock everywhere for the fittings/rad sizes I wanted.

I will update you all tomorrow afternoon. Once again, I’m astounded by the support offered to me in this forum and I appreciate all input.

 

[SirConfused]

Another thing to consider when going for lower temps is that (up to a point) GPU's will throttle clocks back as the chip heats up more. More thermal dissipation capacity means the card can run at higher power without reaching the bios level throttling thresholds. Once you've overcome that you will just run into the power limit of the GPU and beyond that you're trying to get closer to ambient or slowing fan speeds down.

As others have said, it depends what you're trying to achieve, but there's still benefit to be had by increasing your heat dissipation capacity beyond a 240.

If you want to look at it a different way, does your radiator look bigger than a traditional GPU and CPU cooling solution combined? There's only so much ability that a limited amount of rad surface area has to get rid of heat...

 

[Mattr]

Another thing to consider when going for lower temps is that (up to a point) GPU's will throttle clocks back as the chip heats up more. More thermal dissipation capacity means the card can run at higher power without reaching the bios level throttling thresholds. Once you've overcome that you will just run into the power limit of the GPU and beyond that you're trying to get closer to ambient or slowing fan speeds down.

As others have said, it depends what you're trying to achieve, but there's still benefit to be had by increasing your heat dissipation capacity beyond a 240.

If you want to look at it a different way, does your radiator look bigger than a traditional GPU and CPU cooling solution combined? There's only so much ability that a limited amount of rad surface area has to get rid of heat...

That's a good point. I definitely get some throttling, which I'm hoping to prove to myself by testing against historical cinebench scores.

Well - the first pic that came up when I googled my build with watercooling has a 360 Also, I like their drain valve. Can you think of a more optimal place for mine? Currently by the res, bottom right.

 

[SirConfused]

The drain port is in the best place for your loop, looks good there. Lowest point makes for the most fluid out of the loop before you have to start moving things around and tipping/tilting.

 

[Sin_Chase]

The performance of your loop should be measured as the DeltaT (difference) of Water against Ambient.

The bigger the difference between Water over Ambient then the poorer your loop is able to dissipate heat.

There becomes a point where your blocks can only draw away so much heat and beyond exotic solutions (sub zero, chillers etc) you'll get no more cooling performance assuming your radiators and fans are able to dissipate the heat being dumped into the water.

Your loop absolutely does not have enough radiator performance to match your blocks. Whilst this may not be an issue it will limit the maximum performance achievable.

More importantly however is how hot your water gets. You are on soft tubing which won't present as much as a problem as hard line but there is a manufacturers recommended max water temperature for tubing. Furthermore persistent high water temperature may affect pump longevity.

Don't get sucked into thicker rad automatically means more performance either. Thicker rads generally require stronger airflow or consideration of push/pull configurations. Thickness isn't the whole picture either. Fin density (FPI) and water channel count and configuration also play a part.

tldr: Get some more rad area! (As already advised)