Trading the stockmarket (NO Referrals)

englishpremier said:
The markets are down, bitcoin is down, gold is down, bonds are being sold off, and inflation is set to rise. Where is safe to keep your money?
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Gold doesnt change value, thats your matrix level brain melter for today :p Speculatively I get its maybe not the trade for now but so far as I can see the miners are making money, rising oil reduces margins but they'll be ok

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffett-bond-investors-face-bleak-future-161052302.html

skip forward on this 2hr vid, dudes about the same age as Capt Tom but somehow still got something relevant on markets. Reason I have to listen to this is Buffet's comment on bonds which is the biggest bubble of any other
 
JPM says people could put 1% of their portfolio in crypto though.

I wonder how much renewable energy bitcoin uses, some of the big mining centres are where silly cheap electricity is from renewables I thought

I wonder how much electric the banks and VISA/mastercard/paypal etc use combined I bet it's a massive number too, just seems like a bitcoin hit piece

fast google says it's atleast 40% renewables for bitcoin could be as high as 70%
and it's only 0.2 percent of the worlds energy use
 
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arknor said:
JPM says people could put 1% of their portfolio in crypto though.

I wonder how much renewable energy bitcoin uses, some of the big mining centres are where silly cheap electricity is from renewables I thought

I wonder how much electric the banks and VISA/mastercard/paypal etc use combined I bet it's a massive number too, just seems like a bitcoin hit piece

fast google says it's atleast 40% renewables for bitcoin could be as high as 70%
and it's only 0.2 percent of the worlds energy use
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This is what annoys me somewhat. Who decides what is worth spending electricity/resources on? Yes, it uses a lot of resources, but then so does a whole host of other subjectively useless ****.
 
Jono8 said:
This is what annoys me somewhat. Who decides what is worth spending electricity/resources on? Yes, it uses a lot of resources, but then so does a whole host of other subjectively useless ****.
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The Bitcoin network can only handle a few transactions a second. You could comfortably run the entire Bitcoin ledger on a budget smartphone with a big enough SD card.

But it wastes the energy requirements of a medium sized country, by design. It's fundamentally, irredeemably flawed. Sooner or later it'll go in the bin, while people get on with using the underlying principles of blockchain in useful, efficient ways.
 
mid_gen said:
The Bitcoin network can only handle a few transactions a second. You could comfortably run the entire Bitcoin ledger on a budget smartphone with a big enough SD card.

But it wastes the energy requirements of a medium sized country, by design. It's fundamentally, irredeemably flawed. Sooner or later it'll go in the bin, while people get on with using the underlying principles of blockchain in useful, efficient ways.
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I dont necessarily disagree. However my argument is more based around who determines what is a waste of electricity?
 
DireEmblem said:
How about anything that doesn't add value and consumes electricity, is a waste of what electricity can do?
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Well thats the issue.

Some people use electricity for pretty lights, some use it to play games all day, some use it for pretty fountains , some use it for model railways etc etc.

Essentially, how do you arbitrarily decide that one thing in particular uses "too much". What is too much, and what is considered a "useful" use of electricity?
 
Jono8 said:
Well thats the issue.

Some people use electricity for pretty lights, some use it to play games all day, some use it for pretty fountains , some use it for model railways etc etc.

Essentially, how do you arbitrarily decide that one thing in particular uses "too much". What is too much, and what is considered a "useful" use of electricity?
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Pretty lights, games, fountains, model railways etc all provide value to people, doesn't matter that it's subjective.

Bitcoin mining doesn't provide value to people, it's simply a way to verifiably measure a quantity of effort. A solution dreamt up by an engineer with no consideration for the real-world economic, and environmental impact of the system.

If there was a trusted way to measure the output of electric fan heaters, you could run the bitcoin network on warehouses full of electric fan heaters. That's how stupid it is. The reality is not that far off tbh, all mining operations do is turn electricity into heat and prove how much of it they've done.
 
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mid_gen said:
Pretty lights, games, fountains, model railways etc all provide value to people, doesn't matter that it's subjective.
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lolol Yeah I'm sure Branson wanders around to each of his 20,000 individual fountains at his 15 different palatial properties that are all running 24/7 and gets a lot of value out of them
 
Very annoying, Interactive Investor still haven't got my Cellular Goods shares in my account yet.

I spoke to them ~4pm on Friday and they suggested the whole IPO had been a bit of a mess with them changing the listing date at the last minute and Primary bid not updating brokers ahead of time.
 
Mulder said:
HL have got my Cellular Goods shares through from Primary Bid. Nice 3x return, shame I got scaled back on my original bid!
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Yeah, i assume that HL are a bigger broker so got priority. It's definitely something i'll be looking to open for any future IPO's
 
Most Bitcoin mining these days is done in places like China, Russia and Northern European countries near to hydro-electric or geothermal power sources at an industrial scale, good luck getting the first two to stop.

It will continue to be a store of value (other coins that run on proof of stake rather than proof of work will be the digital currencies) for years yet.
 
mid_gen said:
Pretty lights, games, fountains, model railways etc all provide value to people, doesn't matter that it's subjective.

Bitcoin mining doesn't provide value to people, it's simply a way to verifiably measure a quantity of effort. A solution dreamt up by an engineer with no consideration for the real-world economic, and environmental impact of the system.

If there was a trusted way to measure the output of electric fan heaters, you could run the bitcoin network on warehouses full of electric fan heaters. That's how stupid it is. The reality is not that far off tbh, all mining operations do is turn electricity into heat and prove how much of it they've done.
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No, you don't seem to be getting the idea of subjectivity. Maybe someone enjoys mining and trading bitcoin as much as the person who likes fairy lights?

What about, for example , people that play games all day and stream it to people on YouTube to make money? Why is that an objectively better use of electricity? It isnt.
 
Jono8 said:
No, you don't seem to be getting the idea of subjectivity. Maybe someone enjoys mining and trading bitcoin as much as the person who likes fairy lights?

What about, for example , people that play games all day and stream it to people on YouTube to make money? Why is that an objectively better use of electricity? It isnt.
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That Bitcoin mining is a waste of energy is not up for debate. It was explicitly designed to waste energy, that is how the system works.
 
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