Tories lost the 2019 election among working age adults
- Thread starter cheesyboy
- Start date
Well said. I completely agree.But they are more experienced in many things, that isn't an opinion, it as by virtue of age. Now my dad has never travelled anywhere near like I have, he doesn't have anywhere near the understanding of tech, modern business, the interests of the younger generation, but he has lots of skills that helped me get there. To simply throw that away and tell him his value is now done, STFU dad you know nothing and are slowing us all down is frankly crazy. My mum, 82, has iPad, iPone, Apple TV, MacBook and use them all.....for playing card games and listening to tunes and watching some YouTube
Lest you forget the old people are the ones that gave you this soap box, the device you type into said soap box, the mechanisms to move it from you to me etc etc etc. The young are the future, they control it and where it goes next but they have done little in reality other than stand on their soapbox to tell the old people how they have ruined it for them.....for generation after generation. So to you point don't lessen their knowledge, experience or smarts because they were EXACTLY (bar generational differences) where you are, you have never been where they are and I can virtually guarantee when you get there it will make more sense because it just does.
So it is up to the young to now make the change as they have the ball. Focus less on what those who went before did wrong or what they can and can't do today. To do anything less is falling into the same box you (as in young people not just you) seek to cast at others perhaps. There comes a time when you have to own the problem and work to fix it. No one ever has of course for its really hard and not as simple as throwing stones without having to own the problem.
There is a saying "standing on the shoulders of giants". Each new generation stands on the shoulders of the previous generation.
These debates are nothing new, they have been around for centuries, but each young generation thinks the old people just don't understand 1) what it's like to be young today 2) how hard it is for them compared to what went before. They don't know any different because, well, they are just young people finding their way and as patronising as they find that, because we all do with our 'spunky' youngness and our new found adult voice, it's a statement of fact.
"How can we make a change when no one listens to us as we are out numbered, as the stats at the start show?"
Well, build a coherent debate that isn't predicated on all old people are the problem, for a start and take it to the nation. Most the old people 'own' some young people and are REALLY interested in their family members future wellbeing.
"You have ruined it for us by your appalling actions in recent times, bankers, climate, spending habits of governments, wars....etc"
Over to you, get voted in, make the change, build a coherent case for election, convince people you are right.
Life is hard. World affairs involve, well, the world.
Culture, religion, education, health, resources, money....you need to fix all that too
"Nah, gona moan on a web forum and social media to people who agree with me thanks"
Ah, a future tory then
Take this as a little tongue in cheek as I am big and ugly enough to know it's complex and nuanced but the fundamental generations moaning is nothing new. Fixing it doesn't happen because you need to all think and believe the same and the single biggest advantage YOU have as a current young generation is a mechanism to create a consensus better than any generation in the history of mankind, the one I am using right now.
But you won't cuz people.
Soldato
Without credible statistical evidence, this allegation that working age adults are in no way responsible for the most recent massive Tory election victory and that it is down to OAPs is utter nonsense
Pretty much.
Lots of quotes by other people I could add here as well, this was just the last in the thread
By the op count, maybe we should just decide criteria on who can vote. Maybe OCUK could decide the criteria?
I do recall a poll on here, maybe all of the people on here that suggested they voted Conservative are non-workers or earn over 100k+ in a household - forum makes sense now!
This generation is currently the first to be WORSE off than previous generations.
I wasn't arguing the old were 'less than', simply that they were not 'more than', as has been suggested throughout the thread.But they are more experienced in many things, that isn't an opinion, it as by virtue of age. Now my dad has never travelled anywhere near like I have, he doesn't have anywhere near the understanding of tech, modern business, the interests of the younger generation, but he has lots of skills that helped me get there. To simply throw that away and tell him his value is now done, STFU dad you know nothing and are slowing us all down is frankly crazy. My mum, 82, has iPad, iPone, Apple TV, MacBook and use them all.....for playing card games and listening to tunes and watching some YouTube
Lest you forget the old people are the ones that gave you this soap box, the device you type into said soap box, the mechanisms to move it from you to me etc etc etc. The young are the future, they control it and where it goes next but they have done little in reality other than stand on their soapbox to tell the old people how they have ruined it for them.....for generation after generation. So to you point don't lessen their knowledge, experience or smarts because they were EXACTLY (bar generational differences) where you are, you have never been where they are and I can virtually guarantee when you get there it will make more sense because it just does.
So it is up to the young to now make the change as they have the ball. Focus less on what those who went before did wrong or what they can and can't do today. To do anything less is falling into the same box you (as in young people not just you) seek to cast at others perhaps. There comes a time when you have to own the problem and work to fix it. No one ever has of course for its really hard and not as simple as throwing stones without having to own the problem.
Now IS the time for the young to make the change. But, as is the thrust of the thread, they do not in fact 'have the ball'. The old are still holding it: they alone elected our government. The young ('not-old' rather than 'young', really, since we're including up to 65) wanted a different direction. That 'change' you speak of.
I covered that above as I have seen that 'defence' used all the time, used it myself in my time. So go get the ball back then.
To add, getting the young to vote would be a good start, maybe start there. Turn out, use the voice you are given?
(I am not aiming this at you in person, just quoting your content and generalising the debate)
How is that defined because they are massively better off in many ways than I was (I am 53 so not a fogey).
Not being able to afford a house, yet?
But they are more experienced in many things, that isn't an opinion, it as by virtue of age. Now my dad has never travelled anywhere near like I have, he doesn't have anywhere near the understanding of tech, modern business, the interests of the younger generation, but he has lots of skills that helped me get there. To simply throw that away and tell him his value is now done, STFU dad you know nothing and are slowing us all down is frankly crazy. My mum, 82, has iPad, iPone, Apple TV, MacBook and use them all.....for playing card games and listening to tunes and watching some YouTube
Lest you forget the old people are the ones that gave you this soap box, the device you type into said soap box, the mechanisms to move it from you to me etc etc etc. The young are the future, they control it and where it goes next but they have done little in reality other than stand on their soapbox to tell the old people how they have ruined it for them.....for generation after generation. So to you point don't lessen their knowledge, experience or smarts because they were EXACTLY (bar generational differences) where you are, you have never been where they are and I can virtually guarantee when you get there it will make more sense because it just does.
So it is up to the young to now make the change as they have the ball. Focus less on what those who went before did wrong or what they can and can't do today. To do anything less is falling into the same box you (as in young people not just you) seek to cast at others perhaps. There comes a time when you have to own the problem and work to fix it. No one ever has of course for its really hard and not as simple as throwing stones without having to own the problem.
Problem is the old used to be only 17% of the voting population and by 2050 will be 38%. In the past they had influence on who was the government and the direction of the country, now they basically decided for everybody.
What's the cause of that?
No the metric they have always used - disposal income.
https://www.ft.com/content/81343d9e-187b-11e8-9e9c-25c814761640
These are without housing costs. Once you put them in then this is the first generation where they are worse off then the previous generation.
Baby Boomers were the big winners.
Caporegime
Data isn't data at all. Processing and manipulation of data is a very lucrative career for some.
But that still leaves 62% to take the fight to the fogeys and not all the fogeys will vote 'anti-young' (to simplify it).
Can't complain at people living longer either, that is good right?
Disposable income I can see, but there is much more than money that determines being well off I feel. Health, access to services, technology, mobility, travel, education, freedom to roam, equality all better as the generations develop. Down the line current generations will inherit much more too I suspect, well unless the government takes it all, but that's back to the young generation to fix that then.
Both my parents were the generation before boomers, they were born during dropping bombs (Birmingham) and air raid shelters.
Soldato
It all comes down to the cost of housing
I am not. I am just saying the whole metrics of who decides on the government is changing. Back in the 60s when your life expectancy in retirement was only a few years, the governments were always voted in by the working population.
And its not so much "anti young" but the majority of people will vote for the matters that affect them the most which may be detrimental to the younger generation. Look at triple lock pensions for starters.
Now and for many many years its going to be decided by the retired population. There are after all only about 50 seats which decide who is in power in this country due to our FPTP system so its the older population on those seats who make the decision on the direction this country goes.
Where i am is the second highest av age population in in the country and is one of the safest Tory seats in the country.
There are other ways to measure it granted but on pure financial terms then you cant dispute they are the first gen worse off than the previous gen. And FOM has gone which the previous generations enjoyed so the current gen has less freedoms and opportunities in that respect.
Plus as that article states, millennials wont inherit until aged 61. Too late in life to make much difference to them and also may all go on care costs anyway.
Honestly? I'd start with the lack of regulation around property being an investment asset for an old fogey cashing in their retirement. Even in the very short time I've lived on my road, 3 of the properties have been acquired by 50-something year old blokes, cashing in their pot @ £800k or there abouts, and then buying a £450k house with a £1450/month rental yield.
My core point here, to be clear.
Focus less on age, build a different debate that convinces them of the merits of your POV, whatever that is. They need to be convinced as most have a stake in the future of their children and want the best for them. Don't just write them off as not caring or out of touch, for I know my parents aren't. They care about the young much more than people might expect.