No. As this thread topic covers: Labour won with working age people, but still suffered an immense defeat due to the grey-vote.
Tories lost the 2019 election among working age adults
- Thread starter cheesyboy
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Still winning the argument, eh.
As has been pointed out to you many times, and you keep ignoring because it doesn't suit the agenda you're pushing, apathy won among working age people.
Seriously, repeating the same discredited drivel over and over again isn't a debating tactic, it's a fallacy.
What's your view on the rest of the quote you conviently edited out?
Do you see an issue with the illegal racism that infected the labour party during the time you wish to return to?
Why do you think criticism is demonisation?
The vote turnout across ages isn't substantially different now to any time over the post war period. The difference now, compared with the past, is that old people are such a large demographic, and vote so much more strongly for one party.
It's not unreasonable to think that such a power balance might throw up some problems. Labour's current push of flag shagging etc, policies which they know will alienate the young (Starmer's polling with the young is through the floor), are designed to curry favour with that old voting block.
Now you can have the opinion that flag shagging etc are policies that are good for the country, and that the interests of young people are less so. But I don't share that opinion, and have concern that such grey-vote pandering is A Bad Thing.
“I don’t share that opinion”
Tough, it’s how it works.
Again…how do you propose to fix it? You are spiralling but seem unwilling to say how you suggest we fix your opinion? Do we stop old people voting, or do we solve the generational issues of young not caring?
Tough, it’s how it works.
Again…how do you propose to fix it? You are spiralling but seem unwilling to say how you suggest we fix your opinion? Do we stop old people voting, or do we solve the generational issues of young not caring?
That flag shagging is good for the country?!
As far as my wants for the electoral system go, I want MORE enfranchisement for more people, not less. I would ultimately like politics to work for the common man more than the wealthy man, since the wealthy already have greater access to liberty, freedom and justice.
The purpose of posting the thread is to draw attention to where the power base in the electorate is, and how those who voted for Labour and believed in the idea of a left-wing government, but saw them suffer huge defeat, were not (as many like to paint them as) anomalies : working people voted for Corbyn's party ahead of all others.
If you vote Tory, you vote with the rich and you vote with the retired. And that's fine. Perhaps you are rich, or retired. Or perhaps you see the world like an old or rich person, despite being neither. And that's fine too.
But it's still interesting, to me, to see such a wide disparity between the groups.
I feel like a lot of people are being unduly defensive about what the study reports. Perhaps a feeling of unease at being a minority within their demographic?
People who have a vote but don't use it are not disenfranchised.
People who voted are not disenfranchised if their choice didn't win.
This whole thread is basically a giant loaded question fallacy about how reality doesn't match your own assumptions and wants.
Don’t answer my question with a question. Stand for something.
You picked out this:
And said "Tough, it's how it works"
Which seems like you're commenting on flag shagging policies being good. Seems worth clarifying, really.
For solving the issue, I've already said, to you and others, that the issue of block voting by OAPs is not something that can necessarily be solved. So I'm not sure why you're asking again.
I'm not sure you're in a position to complain about this behaviour given that I called you out for the same thing literally the post before (and you did the same thing in your response to that post as well).
Don't complain about selective quoting when you keep doing it, it's not exactly a mark of good faith debating.
I am a strong believer each voter is equal.
This is e.g. why I support PR voting systems.
I do also accept though that older people are more likely to vote for short term gains (aka election bribes), as has been said the longer future may not be there for them.
The solution is to get more younger people more economically active rather than taking votes from older people as well as to convince older people that more things matter than house prices, pensions and immigration.
The thread isnt a surprise, there was a poll on MSE before the last GE, and it was asking what issues are important, and the results were posted for each age group.
Commonly for younger people it was things like cost of education, cost of rental, availability of social homes, job security. Common theme amongst older people was level of taxation, house prices (wanting it higher not lower), immigration, europe (brexit), Didnt take me long to see which age group was voting tory more.
This is e.g. why I support PR voting systems.
I do also accept though that older people are more likely to vote for short term gains (aka election bribes), as has been said the longer future may not be there for them.
The solution is to get more younger people more economically active rather than taking votes from older people as well as to convince older people that more things matter than house prices, pensions and immigration.
The thread isnt a surprise, there was a poll on MSE before the last GE, and it was asking what issues are important, and the results were posted for each age group.
Commonly for younger people it was things like cost of education, cost of rental, availability of social homes, job security. Common theme amongst older people was level of taxation, house prices (wanting it higher not lower), immigration, europe (brexit), Didnt take me long to see which age group was voting tory more.
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I’m clearly asking and I can not be any more unambiguous “what do you think we should do to address your concern at the start of this thread…to be 100% clear?”
I’m not commenting on flag shagging, no idea what that’s all about. I am trying to get you to solve your problem. How you suggest we fix it. “Can’t not necessarily solved” is a little ambiguous, is it not? Do you have any ideas or are you just venting (which is fine).
I think we should stop the poor voting or accountants. They don’t represent my interests.
See the craziness of that mindset?
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Soldato
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The reason i do not vote is because all options are wildly different to my own political views.
By not voting i am showing that i am not interested in any party, if i were to vote, it would appear as if i am in agreement with one party.
As that party has my vote, they have no incentive to change. Another party cannot be formed etc.
So you should only vote if you are happy with the person and or party, and not simply chose the lesser of two evils.
By not voting i am showing that i am not interested in any party, if i were to vote, it would appear as if i am in agreement with one party.
As that party has my vote, they have no incentive to change. Another party cannot be formed etc.
So you should only vote if you are happy with the person and or party, and not simply chose the lesser of two evils.
As an older person, 68 and 3/4
, my sole view on who to vote for is based on competence and which party overall is likely to deliver.The last election was a bit of a one off because of Brexit and the total mess that parliament made of it for the previous three years. Nothing of substance was carried out and MP's were being paid for nowt.
We had to get Brexit out of the way so that is why 2019 was unique. Plenty did not want it but the status quo ante was toxic.
I fully intend to try and live a further 20 years, it's probably wishful thinking, but that leads to my next point. I do not vote short termist as I could be around to see the results of my voting.
Sadly mud does stick, I am a forgiveful person, I find it petty people wont vote labour because of the 1970s.
Also petty people wouldn't vote for Jo Swinson I assume because the lib dems the junior member of a coalition under Clegg didnt get the senior member to agree to all of its policies. They of course forget the good things the lib dems did in that coalition. Her manifesto is probably the best I have ever seen since I have been eligible to vote, and its been a while, yet she lost her seat and the party made not even a partial comeback.
I vote usually on manifesto, not the leader or personality, however I know many people are different, many members of my family "like Boris", so will vote probably vote for him as long as he is tory leader, regardless of how many mistakes he makes, my dad is still convinced Corbyn is a Russian spy. My mother still tells me about the strikes in the 70s (she lost her job in those strikes so will never forget it).
My dad a long time tory voter, voted labour in 1997 simply because he didnt like major's personality and voice.
It is becoming a common trend though that the tories are forgiven far more easily or even turned a blind eye to when they make mistakes. I dont know anyone personally who think the tories have made mistakes on the pandemic as an example, and likewise for the austerity inflicted by cameron, the party forced misery onto millions by ideology and actually became more popular for it.
As an older person, 68 and 3/4
The last election was a bit of a one off because of Brexit and the total mess that parliament made of it for the previous three years. Nothing of substance was carried out and MP's were being paid for nowt.
We had to get Brexit out of the way so that is why 2019 was unique. Plenty did not want it but the status quo ante was toxic.
I fully intend to try and live a further 20 years, it's probably wishful thinking, but that leads to my next point. I do not vote short termist as I could be around to see the results of my voting.
Thats why i chose my words carefully "more likely" rather than "all of them"
I think some dont vote because they not interested enough in politics, but also some dont vote because they dont believe in FPTP. With PR I expect turnout would shoot up in safe seat areas.