Elise or...?

Razyre

Razyre

Razyre

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4 Jun 2012
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259
This is looking maybe a year or so into the future but I like to look ahead.

Currently have a single car garage of a 2020 i30N; got it on a short term lease for 24 months back in March 2020 and then the world ended so haven't gotten to drive it all that much. Decent car, especially good for the deal I got on it, but came from an NB MX5 and while I like the obnoxious exhaust and the rush of a turbo car, I kind of want to go back to a lighter nimbler car, probably with RWD. The i30 weighs basically 1500kg; while it's fairly quick in a straight line and capable in the corners, you can't chuck it about.

The ultimate plan is to get a more mundane daily lease, probably something electric, for going to work and shops and whatnot, then a weekend weapon which can break on me and wait for a while before getting fixed. I somehow bought the most unreliable MX5 ever and having that as my only car was a harrowing experience.

Things I've considered and why I don't think I'm going to get one:

- GT86 (turbo) - Solid chassis, not painfully heavy, reliable, there's nothing particularly against this (apart form the fact I'd want one that has mods because the stock power is so lacklustre) but it just doesn't give me a fizz thinking about ownership. I've already done moderately powerful turbo 4 pot, granted this one is RWD and good for sliding about but idk, not inspiring.
- ND MX5 - Again, great chassis, ample power but it's "another MX5". Granted, it's a lot newer than an NB, more capable and quicker in a straight line, but I feel like I'm revisiting a chapter I've already been to with this. That and I'd want the 2019 2.0 with the higher revving engine and those are still quite pricey for what they are.
- VX220 - A strong contender. Cheaper than an Elise, perhaps rarer? I was leaning heavily towards one of these but then found out parts availability really is dwindling for these. It's not good in the Lotus camp either from what I gather but these really didn't sell in many numbers, nor for many years. I'd also prefer one of the more powerful higher revving N/A lumps in an S2 Elise over the turbo unit the VX220 is adorned with.

So I'm leaning towards an Elise at the moment, probably a 111R or similar ilk. It's got that high revving Toyota lump, the Rover one somewhat terrifies me, though I gather if the head gasket goes it's not necessarily kippers if you catch it quick and address it in short order. I also think it's a great looking thing, it weighs nothing, it's tiny, it's mid engined, it's just got that bit of pizazz going for it.

Tell me why I'm an idiot (other than L.O.T.U.S) and why I should buy something else :D
 
I bought one last year and ran it for 8 months straight through lockdown 1, one of the early Toyota engined cars. The 111r isn't nesessarily the best for road use though. Many people prefer the others are the power delivery is smoother. They don't seem powerful on paper but they will blast past 60mph in 2nd pretty quickly and get you in to a lot of trouble.

All of them are good, I think the VX220 has a few more issues you need to watch out for though. They aren't exactly the same as the Elise and are heavier with more compromise in the way of comfort.

If you want something more sedate and to daily, pick the MX-5 or gt86 tbh.
 
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what's your budget?

I'm in a similar kinda position, I've had a NC MX5 that I miss and since then I've build a Mega S2000 Westfield for a workmate (so have occasional access to that and anytime I drive it I miss my own 2 seater weekend car).

If you're looking around 20k and only want a track/weekend weapon then realistically a Westfield/Caterham is the obvious (but rarely considered) choice. MENTAL and loads of options depending on your history. There's bike-engined, turbo, V8s, NA, etc... But, they're all v v basic, raw and questionable when it's wet...

MX5 is a safe option, we all know/love them, can daily, so why not turbo one?!?

As I understand an Elise is pretty much the midway between a MX5 and a Westfield. Pretty raw, but also usable 95% of the time.

so, me... I'm in this dilemma too but want/need to move house to get a usable garage 1st, and tbh I think I'll be posting my own "any other options post" when I'm ready to pull the trigger (hopefully early next year).

VX220 - look at the turbo for maximum mental ;) tbh, the looks of the vx220 doesn't "fizz" me the same as the lotus, so I think I've ruled them out myself. but, if you're interested then get a test drive https://www.jonsealsportscars.com/car/vxr360/ if you're nearby

Atm my window-shopping was a 15-20k elise, or turbo-ing a NC3.5 (being put off the ND by the chocolate gearbox), or GT85 (possibly going FI there too).

With the end of any hybrid or traditional fuel car from 2030, I'm hoping that "enthusiast" sportscars should keep their value, or even gain from then on. So, I'm thinking of trying to find something special and decent, to cherish, enjoy and keep away in a garage when it's wet/snowy, and hold on to for as long as possible... so, (for me) it's worth finding not just a fun weekend car, but a v good example to enjoy for 10-20 years...

turbo/chargin-ing a MX5 seemed a bit dull, as I've already been down the MX5 route and it would be nice to get something different, so 90% ruled out.

GT86 - not convertible, so ruled out.

20k elise would be the gen 2 with about 180 bhp, so then upped the budget to 25k for a gen3 for 220bhp, then considered that if I'm likely to pull the trigger next year, I guess I could go up to 30-35k for something really special - basically justifying a gen 3.5 open gearbox 220bhp elise. But... in the last couple weeks I've bean leaning towards TVR... T350T, Tuscan and Tamora are all in that ball-park, already at the bottom of their depreciation curve and arguably gaining value, classic car insurance and WAY more mental... but I'm guessing they have a LOT larger upkeep cost than a 3 year old Elise...

Other than Lotus, or TVR, you can think about odd-balls like Ginetta? Nobel probably 10k more. Or more common cars like a Z4M or Porsche. But, (atm) I can only think of Lotus or TVR for prestige 2 seater weekend fun... (and thus my comment about a similar post in ~ 10 months)
 
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Get a nice S1 if you're spending that much. The S3s are probably still going to depreciate yet :)

30-35k should get an Exige. You can turn it in to a convertable using the Elise roof+fittings (around £1500 I think). Just don't take it over 150mph like that or you might die.
 
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Nasher said:
I bought one last year and ran it for 8 months straight through lockdown 1, one of the early Toyota engined cars. The 111r isn't nesessarily the best for road use though. Many people prefer the others are the power delivery is smoother. They don't seem powerful on paper but they will blast past 60mph in 2nd pretty quickly and get you in to a lot of trouble.

All of them are good, I think the VX220 has a few more issues you need to watch out for though. They aren't exactly the same as the Elise and are heavier with more compromise in the way of comfort.

If you want something more sedate and to daily, pick the MX-5 or gt86 tbh.
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I'm not looking for sedate at all, the entire objective is a weekend machine that probably only does a few thousand miles a year. Daily will be some boring EV lump. I'd definitely get an MX-5 for daily duty if I didn't need space.

DereksDontRun said:
what's your budget?

I'm in a similar kinda position, I've had a NC MX5 that I miss and since then I've build a Mega S2000 Westfield for a workmate (so have occasional access to that and anytime I drive it I miss my own 2 seater weekend car).

If you're looking around 20k and only want a track/weekend weapon then realistically a Westfield/Caterham is the obvious (but rarely considered) choice. MENTAL and loads of options depending on your history. There's bike-engined, turbo, V8s, NA, etc... But, they're all v v basic, raw and questionable when it's wet...

MX5 is a safe option, we all know/love them, can daily, so why not turbo one?!?

As I understand an Elise is pretty much the midway between a MX5 and a Westfield. Pretty raw, but also usable 95% of the time.

so, me... I'm in this dilemma too but want/need to move house to get a usable garage 1st, and tbh I think I'll be posting my own "any other options post" when I'm ready to pull the trigger (hopefully early next year).

VX220 - look at the turbo for maximum mental ;) tbh, the looks of the vx220 doesn't "fizz" me the same as the lotus, so I think I've ruled them out myself. but, if you're interested then get a test drive https://www.jonsealsportscars.com/car/vxr360/ if you're nearby

Atm my window-shopping was a 15-20k elise, or turbo-ing a NC3.5 (being put off the ND by the chocolate gearbox), or GT85 (possibly going FI there too).

With the end of any hybrid or traditional fuel car from 2030, I'm hoping that "enthusiast" sportscars should keep their value, or even gain from then on. So, I'm thinking of trying to find something special and decent, to cherish, enjoy and keep away in a garage when it's wet/snowy, and hold on to for as long as possible... so, (for me) it's worth finding not just a fun weekend car, but a v good example to enjoy for 10-20 years...

turbo/chargin-ing a MX5 seemed a bit dull, as I've already been down the MX5 route and it would be nice to get something different, so 90% ruled out.

GT86 - not convertible, so ruled out.

20k elise would be the gen 2 with about 180 bhp, so then upped the budget to 25k for a gen3 for 220bhp, then considered that if I'm likely to pull the trigger next year, I guess I could go up to 30-35k for something really special - basically justifying a gen 3.5 open gearbox 220bhp elise. But... in the last couple weeks I've bean leaning towards TVR... T350T, Tuscan and Tamora are all in that ball-park, already at the bottom of their depreciation curve and arguably gaining value, classic car insurance and WAY more mental... but I'm guessing they have a LOT larger upkeep cost than a 3 year old Elise...

Other than Lotus, or TVR, you can think about odd-balls like Ginetta? Nobel probably 10k more. Or more common cars like a Z4M or Porsche. But, (atm) I can only think of Lotus or TVR for prestige 2 seater weekend fun... (and thus my comment about a similar post in ~ 10 months)
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I don't really know what my budget is tbh. I'll take whatever makes sense probably sub 25k. I don't have any equity in cars rn so will probably put a chunk of cash in + bank loan the rest. Stuff like the S2 Elise has basically depreciated as far as it's going to, so not going to lose much money out of it.

I just think mid engined, sub 1000kg is an extremely attractive prospect, plus the Elise will hold its value better than any MX5 will. Old old ones just rust into nothing, the NC is a bit of a boat, the ND is new so still has a tonne to lose, unless you get like a 2015 but then it's not got the new engine. In general I like the ND but I want something more raw, more racecar, but I could still road trip an Elise, Caterham, not so much.

Ginettas aren't really of interest, Porsche/Z4 etc. aren't in the same category. TVRs are definitely cool, but again, different class of car (probably more unreliable than a Lotus too).

I'm looking to buy first house next year, basically going to get a cheap lease on an EV, get the house, once that's sorted think about the weekend weapon :D

Nasher said:
Get a nice S1 if you're spending that much. The S3s are probably still going to depreciate yet :)

30-35k should get an Exige. You can turn it in to a convertable using the Elise roof+fittings (around £1500 I think). Just don't take it over 150mph like that or you might die.
Click to expand...

I'm not really interested in the S3 all that much, bit pricey. A solid S2 is more of interest. If you're talking about S2 exiges, they seem to be rarer than hens teeth. The 240R there were only 50 units produced IIRC. Not keen on the looks of the S1, nor the Rover powerplant :D
 
This is quite budget dependent, but for a fast, nimble 2 seater an Elise takes some beating (especially if you’ve got something else to do the shopping and tip runs in).

I looked quite hard at Tuscans and T350’s before I settled on my 911. I think I viewed the Porsche as a bit of a safer option if I did need to depend on it. Both TVRs and 911s have barely depreciated at all since I was shopping, so both will be depreciation light. The time to buy a Tuscan was definitely 10 years ago as their value is still increasing.

£25k isn’t quite enough for an Atom, but you’d get a decent Westfield/Caterham which you should definitely look at for sunny day motoring and track use.

A boxster or a Z4 would be a more comfortable place for a weekend away, but comfort doesn’t sound like the top of the list!
 
DereksDontRun said:
S2000?
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An absolute hoot. Really fine machine, but not as fast as an Elise by a long shot. Decent boot and comfortable on a long journey. Loved mine much more than I thought I ever would. My slight gripe with them will always be the ever increasing values. I’d be spending £5k more at least than I sold mine for to buy anything near as good back.
 
Most EVs aren't going to be quicker than an Elise, not even close. Only a few are actually fast and you'll be paying a lot more money for something quite mundane, like a Tesla.
 
DereksDontRun said:
S2000?
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I should've added S2K to that list above, I have mulled it over. Obviously, amazing high revving bulletproof engine with a Honda gearbox (probably the achilles heel of the Elise being its shifter), my beef with these is the prices are pretty high for something that's arguably "just a Honda", they're steel, high mileage, a lot of them rusty. Sure, could spend whatever it'd take, £20k to get a good one, but then from what I've read it's not the best handling car in the world, it's considerably weightier than the Elise, it's got weird Honda EPS of that period. Friend has a Type R and loves it but the steering is whack. I follow some people online that swear by the car, but they've also done a lot to it to get it to be how they like it. I reckon I'll get an Elise, hop in it and as long as everything's in good order, it'll be a hoot from the get go.

tom_nieto said:
This is quite budget dependent, but for a fast, nimble 2 seater an Elise takes some beating (especially if you’ve got something else to do the shopping and tip runs in).

I looked quite hard at Tuscans and T350’s before I settled on my 911. I think I viewed the Porsche as a bit of a safer option if I did need to depend on it. Both TVRs and 911s have barely depreciated at all since I was shopping, so both will be depreciation light. The time to buy a Tuscan was definitely 10 years ago as their value is still increasing.

£25k isn’t quite enough for an Atom, but you’d get a decent Westfield/Caterham which you should definitely look at for sunny day motoring and track use.

A boxster or a Z4 would be a more comfortable place for a weekend away, but comfort doesn’t sound like the top of the list!
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I'll have to take the westfield/caterham seriously, but they are indeed "sunny" cars as you say :D They must be an absolute blast round a circuit, especially somewhere like Brands. Just less of a blast if you want to keep your hearing on a trip!

tom_nieto said:
Is a Lotus Evora worth a look at this budget?
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I have indeed looked at Evoras, as others have said, it's certainly more of a GT car, doesn't really fit into that ultra light nimble category. I'd say £25k is probably a bit on the light side for an Evora, they were starting at that point for a shabby one in my brief searches. I think Evora will definitely go on the "maybe in the future" list once I've had my teeth rattled out by something like an Elise :D

simc1978 said:
Does it have to be internal combustion, most electric cars will out accelerate all those listed maybe you could keep to your one car garage.
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Most electric cars won't (read Zoes, Leafs, cards of that ilk), obviously your Teslas and associated 40k+ high end EVs will, even a base model 3 would give an S2 Elise a run for its money, but it's a 1600kg+ boat of a car designed for taking families about. The whole point of the 2 car ICE/EV garage is you have something to row gears in and enjoy the noise on the weekend while not needlessly polluting for the work commute. EVs are way way more comfortable for mundane driving as well, instant torque, serene quiet operation, but fast EVs are all one party trick: "look at me I go really fast from 0-60!" but otherwise the experience is disinteresting. No car that weighs 1500kg+ is ever going to be all that fun to drive to me. Certainly not on public roads anyway, you're going to need to compensate with power, always feeling the need to push on. I find this even with the i30, and it isn't even sub 6 seconds 0-60, it's just so planted and competent, sure it will torque steer a bit if you really smash the throttle, but that's about all the drama you'll get out of the chassis. The MX5 I used to have, despite being slow as sod, it was adjustable, you could really manage it in the corners. I imagine the Elise is that on steroids. Light cars are alive, they move about underneath you. Sure they're less confidence inspiring, but I think they are the essence of a fun driving experience: Just ask Gordon Murray!
 
Nasher said:
The Elise shifter is good when the linkages are all in good condition. It has a long throw though.
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I think the Elise can get away with having a not perfect shift considering how well it ticks all the other boxes. I've heard the Toyota box is better than the Rover one, which you'd probably expect. Hell, maybe that's the one thing that could be worth doing to the car, some sort of short shift item.
 
Fitting a short shifter to the Toyota cars is a nightmare. I wouldn't bother. Plus is can make the shift more difficult as you have less leverage on the mechanism.
 
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