Does my neighbour have to request my permission to extend their boundary trespass?

Tim Kane

Tim Kane

Tim Kane

Associate
Joined
12 Jul 2021
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10
Location
Manchester
The neighbours are in the process of converting and extending an existing detached garage which has a wall which is right on our boundary. There's an existing soffit/roof/gutter overhang into our garden, it's been like that since the houses were built in the mid 80s. Nothing we can do about that, which is fine.

They're extending the garage back another 4 feet which means removal of a fence panel which butts up to the garage wall, and also incidentally changing the entire roof from a pyramid (square hip is the technical term) to an apex style, which will result in a more dominating structure which I'm not massively happy about.

Because they're extending the garage back 4 feet, this will mean they will have to add another 4 feet of soffit/gutter/etc overhang into our property. I assume they would require our permission for this as that airspace is ours, but there is a precedent with the existing garage for trespass. I asked the neighbour and his response was:

"We would not need a formal agreement for the overhanging guttering as there is already existing guttering which overhangs."

The application is still in the planning stage, (undecided currently) and also he's not given us any party wall agreement paperwork.

To be honest he's an entitled little git and winds me up. He's the type that if you give him an inch he will take a mile. So would really appreciate some advice. Thanks in advance!

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Contact the local planning office is your best bet. You should also add your concerns to the current planning stage before they make any decisions if you haven't.

I'm obviously not an expert but personally I'd be more interested about the footings, if it is that close to your border that the gutter is on your side then it's pretty much a given that you'll likely have footings coming on your side, which means at the very least they'll need to dig out some of your garden and require your plants to be moved (at their cost and should be back to 'how it was' before started, with 'insurance' over damaged plants - so get in writing). Based on that image I'd also be checking to see if it isn't going off at an angle too, it looks like it might extend into your garden a the back due to not being directly in line with the fence.

They'll likely also need access to your side to do any work... so realistically you need something in writing imo.
 
lsg1r said:
Contact the local planning office is your best bet. You should also add your concerns to the current planning stage before they make any decisions if you haven't.

I'm obviously not an expert but personally I'd be more interested about the footings, if it is that close to your border that the gutter is on your side then it's pretty much a given that you'll likely have footings coming on your side, which means at the very least they'll need to dig out some of your garden and require your plants to be moved (at their cost and should be back to 'how it was' before started, with 'insurance' over damaged plants - so get in writing). Based on that image I'd also be checking to see if it isn't going off at an angle too, it looks like it might extend into your garden a the back due to not being directly in line with the fence.

They'll likely also need access to your side to do any work... so realistically you need something in writing imo.
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Thanks for the reply. I believe the Party Wall act says they are entitled to construct footings over the boundary. They intend to demolish and then rebuild with new footings I presume, to cope with double skinned brickwork. Currently it's single skinned.

Good shout on registering objections early on. I've seen a comments section on the planning application on the council website. I will definitely do this, but first I need to get what I'm objecting to straight!

He has said "oh it'll all be ok, we'll sort any damage" but nothing in writing. I've had the misfortune to deal with people who promise the earth and deliver absolutely nothing in the past.. Not sure I trust him.

Picture is a bit "fish-eyed", the wall is dead straight on the boundary.
 
Tim Kane said:
Thanks for the reply. I believe the Party Wall act says they are entitled to construct footings over the boundary. They intend to demolish and then rebuild with new footings I presume, to cope with double skinned brickwork. Currently it's single skinned.

Good shout on registering objections early on. I've seen a comments section on the planning application on the council website. I will definitely do this, but first I need to get what I'm objecting to straight!

He has said "oh it'll all be ok, we'll sort any damage" but nothing in writing. I've had the misfortune to deal with people who promise the earth and deliver absolutely nothing in the past.. Not sure I trust him.

Picture is a bit "fish-eyed", the wall is dead straight on the boundary.
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Maybe it's my cynicism but why do they need to demolish and rebuild into a double skin, it's a garage, they'll literally be losing a fair bit of the extension, adding a second skin will take around 0.5ft of the interior space on each wall, not to mention it will likely have different regs/building rules etc .... sounds to me it might not be intended to be used as 'just a garage'.

To be fair any plans should be online so take a GOOD look at them, imo you'll be able to tell if it's going to be just a garage.
 
To be honest, I’d try and look at this objectively as it’s probably going to happen regardless of what you think.

It’s not an unreasonable extension to be performing. It may be a slightly more dominating structure but will also give you more privacy? The extra overhang is neither here nor there in reality.

I would get something in writing about “making good” but other than that I would just try and let it go, even if the guy is a prat.
 
lsg1r said:
Maybe it's my cynicism but why do they need to demolish and rebuild into a double skin, it's a garage, they'll literally be losing a fair bit of the extension, adding a second skin will take around 0.5ft of the interior space on each wall, not to mention it will likely have different regs/building rules etc .... sounds to me it might not be intended to be used as 'just a garage'.

To be fair any plans should be online so take a GOOD look at them, imo you'll be able to tell if it's going to be just a garage.
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You're right - it's going to be converted into a granny flat for they guy's dad as he's getting on and struggling to live alone. In another 5 years he'll either be dead or infirm to the point he'll need to go into a home. He'd be much better going into a sheltered housing scheme with on-call wardens 24-7. Everything about this build just screams as being badly thought out and badly planned. I once spoke to a weird bloke in a pub who was a carer for his 80+ year old mum. Was telling me horror stories of having to clean her up after she'd **** herself. My neighbour has no idea what he's getting himself into. :(
 
Burned_Alive said:
To be honest, I’d try and look at this objectively as it’s probably going to happen regardless of what you think.

It’s not an unreasonable extension to be performing. It may be a slightly more dominating structure but will also give you more privacy? The extra overhang is neither here nor there in reality.

I would get something in writing about “making good” but other than that I would just try and let it go, even if the guy is a prat.
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That is good advice. I'm in two minds, to make it as difficult as possible for him, or to just be the bigger man, accept it'll happen and go with the flow. I agree it's not going to be massively detrimental, but at the same time I have to be honest and admit that I would prefer it didn't happen.
 
Be aware that this sort of dispute rarely ends well. By all means make sure he is doing what he is allowed to do but don't get petty over it, take a calm look at what he is doing and how it effects you.

Disputes like this can get out of control and even make your house a problem to sell.
 
Party wall is a legal right, and in fact an obligation on the acting party. Both parties are entitled to get their own surveyor to represent them. It won't affect house sale, quite the opposite, a proper PWA will help show a proper process has been followed. If their side has served notice the OP has to act within 14 days or the award automatically enters "in dispute". If they still don't respond the Building Owner (ie. person doing the works) then has to appoint a surveyor to represent next door's Adjoining Owner. quite often this ends up being their own surveyor (for cost reasons) but next door can appoint who they like. And they should do, as just like with lawyers, surveyors can interpret things differently. Strictly speaking they're meant to be impartial and deal with "the interests of the wall" but human nature is to favour the hand that feeds you.
 
ik9000 said:
Party wall is a legal right, and in fact an obligation on the acting party. Both parties are entitled to get their own surveyor to represent them. It won't affect house sale, quite the opposite, a proper PWA will help show a proper process has been followed. If their side has served notice the OP has to act within 14 days or the award automatically enters "in dispute". If they still don't respond the Building Owner (ie. person doing the works) then has to appoint a surveyor to represent next door's Adjoining Owner. quite often this ends up being their own surveyor (for cost reasons) but next door can appoint who they like. And they should do, as just like with lawyers, surveyors can interpret things differently. Strictly speaking they're meant to be impartial and deal with "the interests of the wall" but human nature is to favour the hand that feeds you.
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Thanks. Interesting that you say its an obligation. On one of the plans in the application it says "the party wall act may apply", yet I've heard nothing from him. I assume he's not going to bother with such a party wall agreement as I thought it's usual to get that sorted in parallel with planning so building can start promptly..
 
if you think it needs an award and he's not served notice you can take steps to make him wake up. And if necessary stop the work via injunction - though get advice before going down that route. The act is a bit toothless in that regard as it kind of relies on both parties playing ball, and if not you're forced into injunctions etc which just seems like they missed an intermediate step to me. Like I say I'd be straight onto the phone with a Party Wall Surveyor to represent you. Oh and IIRC he foots your costs in this!
 
peige said:
Be aware that this sort of dispute rarely ends well. By all means make sure he is doing what he is allowed to do but don't get petty over it, take a calm look at what he is doing and how it effects you.

Disputes like this can get out of control and even make your house a problem to sell.
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Yes, good point. Would be pretty dumb of me to end up paying surveyors and solicitors just to delay the inevitable.
 
People are different. He might wait for planning to then seek PWA. Most would do them in parallel. PWA can take a while depending on the nature of the work. Some things are simple, others need engineering review etc. It wouldn't hurt planning objections to note no PWA notice has been served, nor prior contact with you to gauge opinion etc. Planning officers can take a dim view of that where they encourage "early stakeholder engagement" to try and mitigate objections and disharmony/confrontation later.

Whereabouts in the country are you (roughly)?
 
PWA won't affect house sale. It protects your interests by getting a defined agreement. It avoids building surveyor reports saying "potential trespass, rights/easement issue from recent boundary amendments - seek paperwork". You produce PWA and say "all above board and here it is". Alternative is a legal easement, but then you're paying solicitor fees and no guarantee next door consent to that route. PWA is a mandatory process they have to follow.

Note PWA is not a tool to stop them doing the work, quite the opposite it is to enable people to do works. But it is a mechanism to get that vetted and negotiated to ensure everyone's best interests are represented in how party and boundary walls (and garden fences) are carried out.
 
Intern
ik9000 said:
People are different. He might wait for planning to then seek PWA. Most would do them in parallel. PWA can take a while depending on the nature of the work. Some things are simple, others need engineering review etc. It wouldn't hurt planning objections to note no PWA notice has been served, nor prior contact with you to gauge opinion etc. Planning officers can take a dim view of that where they encourage "early stakeholder engagement" to try and mitigate objections and disharmony/confrontation later.

Whereabouts in the country are you (roughly)?
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I'm in the Manchester area. Struggling to understand what the guy is thinking TBH. If it was me one of the first things I'd do is get a PWA sorted out.
 
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