Insurers could replace written-off/stolen petrol cars with EV

[Conscript]

I haven't claimed it will never go wrong, nor that EVs don't have downsides. I just find the dismissal of EVs due to the potential of difficult maintenance odd given that combustion engines are just as complex and with just as many ancillaries which can cause issues.

What new common problems do you see arising from a battery/motor powertrain? They seem to me to be much less complex than an ICE. My biggest concern running an older EV would be reduced range, but that would still worry me less than some of the things I listed above.

 

[theone8181]

I haven't claimed it will never go wrong, nor that EVs don't have downsides. I just find the dismissal of EVs due to the potential of difficult maintenance odd given that combustion engines are just as complex and with just as many ancillaries which can cause issues.

What new common problems do you see arising from a battery/motor powertrain? They seem to me to be much less complex than an ICE. My biggest concern running an older EV would be reduced range, but that would still worry me less than some of the things I listed above.

I suspect with electric if anything goes wrong it will be easier to replace rather than repair. I.e. batteries or electric motors, that bit could be expensive but the rest of the stuff should be cheaper (on theory) due to less maintenance needed, I think tesla reckon you need to change an air filter and that's it. Will be interesting as cars currently have a lot of emphasis on a service history which just won't exist with ev.

 

[lordrobs]

EVs will need to come a long way before then for me to consider one. I'm not anti EV in the slightest the moment they become as affordable as a petrol I'll happily switch, but they are far from at the moment.

Can see lots of people jumping on late petrol cars and keep them going for years.

I probably will.

That is absolutely fine though, no one will hold a gun to your head on 1st Jan 2030 and tell you to buy an EV. I mean, they may make it financially unwise not to but that is a completely different thing and is why we are driving around in 1.4L forced induction cars now and not 5L V8's. When you say they need to come a long way, in what regard? Charging is getting quicker, range is getting longer and that is this generation of cars. We've got at least a couple of generations to go over the next 8 and a bit years.

Them becoming "affordable" is a very good point but is quite a complex issue. You've got that mix of depreciation, fuel, taxes* and maintenance to think about.

*By taxes I'm also bundling in the inevitable increased implementation of ULEZ zones, tiered road tolls etc.

If considering purely purchase price you'd need a crystal ball to predict what your 0.8L 3 cylinder 2029 petrol car will cost you compared to the EV equivalent and that's before you consider the running costs.

I read a great comment the other day on the BBC News website "I'll get an EV when the government give me a way to charge it from my terraced house without off road parking" Right... the way the Government currently runs a dedicated pipeline to your own private petrol pump At home charging will be massively convenient (and probably comparatively cheap) for those that can do it but those that can't will have other options and IF those options aren't in place by 2030 they have the choice of running an ICE car until they are.

 

[Nasher]

But you only need to use a petrol pump for about 30 seconds every 1-2 weeks. Not quite the same lol

You need to keep an EV topped up, otherwise you might get caught out if you need to make a long trip or you cant charge it for some reason.

 

[BUDFORCE]

That is absolutely fine though, no one will hold a gun to your head on 1st Jan 2030 and tell you to buy an EV. I mean, they may make it financially unwise not to but that is a completely different thing and is why we are driving around in 1.4L forced induction cars now and not 5L V8's. When you say they need to come a long way, in what regard? Charging is getting quicker, range is getting longer and that is this generation of cars. We've got at least a couple of generations to go over the next 8 and a bit years.

Them becoming "affordable" is a very good point but is quite a complex issue. You've got that mix of depreciation, fuel, taxes* and maintenance to think about.

*By taxes I'm also bundling in the inevitable increased implementation of ULEZ zones, tiered road tolls etc.

If considering purely purchase price you'd need a crystal ball to predict what your 0.8L 3 cylinder 2029 petrol car will cost you compared to the EV equivalent and that's before you consider the running costs.

I read a great comment the other day on the BBC News website "I'll get an EV when the government give me a way to charge it from my terraced house without off road parking" Right... the way the Government currently runs a dedicated pipeline to your own private petrol pump At home charging will be massively convenient (and probably comparatively cheap) for those that can do it but those that can't will have other options and IF those options aren't in place by 2030 they have the choice of running an ICE car until they are.

Performance and even now range I don't have an issue with EVs. If anything they tend to more torque than petrol cars.

It's the cost.

Ok, electricity Vs petrol sure is cheaper per mile. Reduced tax, fine. Reduced serving....

Well...

I currently have a 2013 Volvo S60, I bought it second hand about 8k, only 15k miles on and is in great condition. It's got just under 30k miles now.

I can service it myself for less than £50 a year. insurance is cheap mainly due to postcode. Brakes, or any wear item I can do. Cambelt is out of my league granted. Tyres etc still need to be done on an EV so is equivalent.


So other than tax and fuel being higher, I can't see an EV being cheaper.

Then there is the initial cost, 8k is not going to get me anywhere near the equivalent EV to my car, the point where the savings in tax and fuel will never make up the difference.

And also depreciation, I tend to just keep cars until death, so this Volvo, should do at least another 10 years, 20 even isn't being too optimistic barring anything unfortunate happening.

Equivalent EV even with modern batteries, due to battery life will not compete.

Find me an EV I can buy for 8k that is equivalent to my Volvo with a battery that will be as good in 10 years and I'll switch straight away.

But such thing doesn't exist.

And in 8 and a half years, as much as I would love to be proven wrong, won't exist.

 

[Nasher]

That is the issue, its not really cheaper when its like for like. The extra cost to buy the EV will never be made up with petrol costs before you change the car again.

 

[theone8181]

Performance and even now range I don't have an issue with EVs. If anything they tend to more torque than petrol cars.

It's the cost.

Ok, electricity Vs petrol sure is cheaper per mile. Reduced tax, fine. Reduced serving....

Well...

I currently have a 2013 Volvo S60, I bought it second hand about 8k, only 15k miles on and is in great condition. It's got just under 30k miles now.

I can service it myself for less than £50 a year. insurance is cheap mainly due to postcode. Brakes, or any wear item I can do. Cambelt is out of my league granted. Tyres etc still need to be done on an EV so is equivalent.


So other than tax and fuel being higher, I can't see an EV being cheaper.

Then there is the initial cost, 8k is not going to get me anywhere near the equivalent EV to my car, the point where the savings in tax and fuel will never make up the difference.

And also depreciation, I tend to just keep cars until death, so this Volvo, should do at least another 10 years, 20 even isn't being too optimistic barring anything unfortunate happening.

Equivalent EV even with modern batteries, due to battery life will not compete.

Find me an EV I can buy for 8k that is equivalent to my Volvo with a battery that will be as good in 10 years and I'll switch straight away.

But such thing doesn't exist.

And in 8 and a half years, as much as I would love to be proven wrong, won't exist.

I suppose the difficulty (and I say this as a petrolhead), is that you're comparing an 8 year old car. Realistically there's not an equivalent to your car excluding cost outside of tesla that do a saloon/hatchback of that size. I've not looked at it in detail, but I'd hazard a guess that the majority of evs are designed around the Chelsea tractor/suv models. I suppose there is polestar and the i4, but quite a different cost bracket. I do think people with cars of similar ages are going to struggle as evs are just so much more initial outlay, they are nowhere near parity imo (ironically apart from something like a Tesla to an M3/rs4 size car.

 

[BUDFORCE]

I suppose the difficulty (and I say this as a petrolhead), is that you're comparing an 8 year old car. Realistically there's not an equivalent to your car excluding cost outside of tesla that do a saloon/hatchback of that size. I've not looked at it in detail, but I'd hazard a guess that the majority of evs are designed around the Chelsea tractor/suv models. I suppose there is polestar and the i4, but quite a different cost bracket. I do think people with cars of similar ages are going to struggle as evs are just so much more initial outlay, they are nowhere near parity imo (ironically apart from something like a Tesla to an M3/rs4 size car.

Like me car before this Volvo, 2007 Mitsubishi Lancer.

Bought at auction for £2000 with 30k miles. Once I had cleaned the baby vomit off the back seat and serviced it, 2 new front tyres, was almost as good as new.


It lasted me over 10 years, over 100k miles, very little went wrong, serviced myself brakes etc, sold it for £400 cash.

So spread £1600 + running costs over 10 years. It's basically **** all.

Edit: ok these cars are not super high performance top of the range, but they are not Nissan Micras either.

 

[lordrobs]

But you only need to use a petrol pump for about 30 seconds every 1-2 weeks. Not quite the same lol

You need to keep an EV topped up, otherwise you might get caught out if you need to make a long trip or you cant charge it for some reason.

But a petrol car can't fill itself up while you do the weekly shop nor do you need to stand there with the cable in you hand while it charges. Its different but not necessarily worse. We simply don't know how charging infrastructure will be in 5, 10, 15 years time and for the end user the choice is absolutely clear. Run an ICE until what is available works for you and your circumstances.

Find me an EV I can buy for 8k that is equivalent to my Volvo with a battery that will be as good in 10 years and I'll switch straight away.

But such thing doesn't exist.

And in 8 and a half years, as much as I would love to be proven wrong, won't exist.

No, it probably won't but using your ownership model as a basis - you say your 2013 Volvo has at least another 10 years in it. That takes you to at least 2031 with an 18 year old car. In 2031 you buy another 8 year old car, you are now the proud owner or a 2023 ICE 'whatever you like'. Run that for "at least 10 years" and you are in 2041. You can't get an 8 year old ICE car in 2041 but theoretically at least you could buy an 11 year old one which you can run to 18 years old (like you stated the previous cars would run to) and you are in 2048... by which time EVs will make up the vast majority of used stock and are on price parity... or we are all flying around in robo taxis.

The main argument always seems to be based around a flip being switched where you have to buy an EV in 2030. That is only the case if you are only prepared to buy a brand new car, which clearly doesn't apply to you.

 

[BUDFORCE]

But a petrol car can't fill itself up while you do the weekly shop nor do you need to stand there with the cable in you hand while it charges. Its different but not necessarily worse. We simply don't know how charging infrastructure will be in 5, 10, 15 years time and for the end user the choice is absolutely clear. Run an ICE until what is available works for you and your circumstances.



No, it probably won't but using your ownership model as a basis - you say your 2013 Volvo has at least another 10 years in it. That takes you to at least 2031 with an 18 year old car. In 2031 you buy another 8 year old car, you are now the proud owner or a 2023 ICE 'whatever you like'. Run that for "at least 10 years" and you are in 2041. You can't get an 8 year old ICE car in 2041 but theoretically at least you could buy an 11 year old one which you can run to 18 years old (like you stated the previous cars would run to) and you are in 2048... by which time EVs will make up the vast majority of used stock and are on price parity... or we are all flying around in robo taxis.

The main argument always seems to be based around a flip being switched where you have to buy an EV in 2030. That is only the case if you are only prepared to buy a brand new car, which clearly doesn't apply to you.

Yea it's a valid point.

 

[Nasher]

But a petrol car can't fill itself up while you do the weekly shop nor do you need to stand there with the cable in you hand while it charges. Its different but not necessarily worse. We simply don't know how charging infrastructure will be in 5, 10, 15 years time and for the end user the choice is absolutely clear. Run an ICE until what is available works for you and your circumstances.

But it doesn't matter as it's so quick. For the time it takes someone to plug an EV in (and swipe their card etc assuming it actually works properly) I could have the tank filled and be off.

There won't be a 2041 because we'll all be dead.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Big benefit from EV is the heat

That is the issue, its not really cheaper when its like for like. The extra cost to buy the EV will never be made up with petrol costs before you change the car again.

It’s value you retain when you sell it though, so your point is invalid.

But it doesn't matter as it's so quick. For the time it takes someone to plug an EV in (and swipe their card etc assuming it actually works properly) I could have the tank filled and be off.

.

Done at home, no drama, no swiping, no apps… done.

Don’t you swipe your card when you pay £50 for the privilege of “convenience”… comedy point made again.

 

[Nasher]

Big benefit from EV is the heat


It’s value you retain when you sell it though, so your point is invalid.




Done at home, no drama, no swiping, no apps… done.

Don’t you swipe your card when you pay £50 for the privilege of “convenience”… comedy point made again.

And right now a lot of older petrol cars are going UP in value...

One of mine is pretty much paying for itself. I've spent way less on petrol than it's increased in value.

 

[Kenai]

And right now a lot of older petrol cars are going UP in value...

One of mine is pretty much paying for itself. I've spent way less on petrol than it's increased in value.

Not because they're old petrol cars though, it's because the market has gone completely mental entirely due to the lack of new cars available.

 

[lordrobs]

And right now a lot of older petrol cars are going UP in value...

One of mine is pretty much paying for itself. I've spent way less on petrol than it's increased in value.

My 24 year old MX5 is now worth almost 1/3 more than I paid for it... still doesn't add to its viability as an everyday car in a decades time though.

I'm all for this mentality of "I'll never drive an electric appliance" though. Means I can keep hold of the thing for even longer and still shift it on without it having about as much appeal as a 15" CRT monitor or a VHS recorder

 

[Jonnycoupe]

And right now a lot of older petrol cars are going UP in value...

One of mine is pretty much paying for itself. I've spent way less on petrol than it's increased in value.

hoping same for mine and what’s even better is they haven’t used much petrol since I got an EV

 

[Haggisman]

But it doesn't matter as it's so quick. For the time it takes someone to plug an EV in (and swipe their card etc assuming it actually works properly) I could have the tank filled and be off.

And then be arrested for bilking

Or are you suggesting you can also pay for it in that time as well? In which case no, no you can't. It literally takes about 30 seconds to pop open the charge flap, plug the cable in, and swipe your card/activate the charge in the app. It often takes longer than that for the chip and pin reader at a pay-at-pump machine to verify my card details.

Every EV thread you wade in, spreading lies and deceit. We get it, you don't like them, but if you didn't talk **** all the time then maybe people would actually take you seriously when you actually make a valid argument. Nobody is claiming they are perfect, there are plenty of real reasons why ICE cars are better in some ways, so why not stick to those points instead of made up nonsense

 

[TheVoice]

Every EV thread you wade in, spreading lies and deceit.

Fixed.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

To get back on topic. I don’t see this happening unless the insurance co’s are given a wedge of cash to fund it.

Surely for them to source a replacement equivalent car that you are happy with, valet it and deliver it to your door is going to cost more than just paying out the cash as they do now and hence why they just pay out cash at the moment. Dealers are making what £1k on a £10k car if they are lucky (outside of COVID) before costs?

As others have rightly pointed out on the boiler point, makes no sense, you can’t just rip out a boiler and put in a heat pump, it’s far more complex and costly than that.

 

[Hades]

Until range and infrastructure improve dramatically I don't want an EV. If insurers start mandating this I'll keep looking for an insurer who would pay out cash instead, assuming it isn't legislated against. It's like when I renew insurance I skip any quotes expecting a black box being fitted.