Heat pumps

Watched a video on YouTube with the Skillbuilder guy and someone from Worcester Bosch, and they more or less dismissed heat pump technology entirely, leaning heavily towards hydrogen fuelled boilers. You might think that's expected of a Worcester Bosch rep, but the Skillbuilder guy had personal experience also. :)
 
Just to add some context, the skill builder guy is also an old school plumber who has a vested interest in selling/maintaining gas boilers. ;)

Gas safe people can’t fit heat pumps, it’s a completely different certification (F-gas) normally associated with air conditioning installers.

There are millions of properties which are suitable for heat pumps but that doesn’t mean they are the answer for everyone. I don’t think anyone reasonable has ever said that.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Just to add some context, the skill builder guy is also an old school plumber who has a vested interest in selling/maintaining gas boilers. ;)

Gas safe people can’t fit heat pumps, it’s a completely different certification (F-gas) normally associated with air conditioning installers.
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That may be true, but everything I've seen and read on the topic seems to suggest that heat pumps aren't the answer for the majority.:)

Edit: you must have edited as I was replying so yes, I agree with your last paragraph.
 
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Well they suitable for any property with a good level of insulation. You can make most properties well insulated but the older the property the more cost/invasive the work and the more important its done correctly.

The real issue is most people have done nothing to improve their properties over time and so many are still the same spec as they were when they were built. I can’t fathom why everyone doesn’t have 300mm+ insulation, it costs next to nothing and you just roll it out. They were literally giving it away for free a not too many years ago and they killed it off because the take up was so low it wasn’t worth the admin.

That said it doesn’t really change that they are still pretty cost prohibitive regardless of suitability.
 
Good luck to anyone running these for heating. Even on our new build its extortionate to run and ours is meant to be one of the most efficient on the market. I don't use it anymore. Most people won't afford to run them. Fortunately we still have a gas boiler.
 
Consensus from anecdotes of crappy badly designed systems. Yeah, lets base policy around that.

Simply design a decent system and it's fine. Even if it's an old house with no great insulation, as long as you fit the correct sized heat pump so its not trying to run non-stop generating water at 40-50degs, and it'll run efficiently.

Fit a system too small and it wont be able to fill the tanks quickly enough so things get cold or the temps demanded from the heat pump go up and corresponding costs go up - badly designed
Fit a system without fitting bigger rads/underfloor heating, then you need higher temps and costs go up - badly designed
Fit a system where the house is leaking like a sieve both heatwise and ventliation wise so the heat pump needs to run continuously and produce 50/60degs water to maintain heat, then badly designed/maintained house and any heating solution will cost a lot.

Any new build where the heat pump isnt working well and reasonably efiiciently is either a real crappy new build, or the system isnt being run properly.
 
1pudding1 said:
Consensus from anecdotes of crappy badly designed systems. Yeah, lets base policy around that.

Simply design a decent system and it's fine. Even if it's an old house with no great insulation, as long as you fit the correct sized heat pump so its not trying to run non-stop generating water at 40-50degs, and it'll run efficiently.

Fit a system too small and it wont be able to fill the tanks quickly enough so things get cold or the temps demanded from the heat pump go up and corresponding costs go up - badly designed
Fit a system without fitting bigger rads/underfloor heating, then you need higher temps and costs go up - badly designed
Fit a system where the house is leaking like a sieve both heatwise and ventliation wise so the heat pump needs to run continuously and produce 50/60degs water to maintain heat, then badly designed/maintained house and any heating solution will cost a lot.

Any new build where the heat pump isnt working well and reasonably efiiciently is either a real crappy new build, or the system isnt being run properly.
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A bit like boiler installation then. Only one costs £2k and the other £15k. A lot of money to spend on a system that might not be fit for purpose.
 
bloodiedathame said:
A bit like boiler installation then. Only one costs £2k and the other £15k. A lot of money to spend on a system that might not be fit for purpose.
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How come you are only putting only the cost of the boiler, not the rest of the kit like you have bundled with the heat pump?
 
Journey said:
However not everyone does, also radiators don't cost £10k.
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I mean if I were to get a heat pump I'd probably need to pay for new radiators too hence £15k.
If I got a new combi and needed new radiators installed (which I don't) I'd probably be paying £5k.

My point still stands, £15k an eye-watering amount of money to spend when there are seemingly so many pitfalls.
 
bloodiedathame said:
I mean if I were to get a heat pump I'd probably need to pay for new radiators too hence £15k.
If I got a new combi and needed new radiators installed (which I don't) I'd probably be paying £5k.

My point still stands, £15k an eye-watering amount of money to spend when there are seemingly so many pitfalls.
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Yes, but you are including all of the labour and new pipe work etc. in that £15k cost. How much is a new boiler going to cost to be installed, not just bought. A heat pump e.g. a 9kW LG R32 unit is only £2.4k. If you use existing pipework, and fit new radiators and a cylinder you don't get to £15k. The prices are high due to the abuse of RHI, just like installers always abuse government money/schemes, you only need to look at rent-a-roof solar back when FIT was a thing to see that.
 
Journey said:
How much is a new boiler going to cost to be installed, not just bought
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Just replacing gas for gas is easy though, it is all the extra pipe work and the messy work that involves that adds significantly to the heat pump installation cost.
 
200sols said:
Just replacing gas for gas is easy though, it is all the extra pipe work and the messy work that involves that adds significantly to the heat pump installation cost.
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It is only fair you compare like-for-like though, lets not get like politicians do, and make things try to fit their narrative by missing out the actual facts. Just pulling a figure like £15k out of your arse, then comparing it against £2k isn't accurate, is it?
 
Journey said:
It is only fair you compare like-for-like though, lets not get like politicians do, and make things try to fit their narrative by missing out the actual facts. Just pulling a figure like £15k out of your arse, then comparing it against £2k isn't accurate, is it?
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It depends, £2k for a direct replacement in the same place gas boiler is feasible, £2-3k is more likely for most people. Whichever way you spin it heat pumps are significantly more expensive to install because of all the extra work that is needed.
 
Well, hoping to eventually sign on the dotted line and move into a house that has no central heating, and so am thinking about a heat pump. There are no radiators installed, but I think I can manage that, and the 22mm plumbing to where ever the water tank is. Seems to be plenty of space outside for one, and I also don't mind rolling out the insulation in the loft if needed. Looking into them, as long as they are set up correctly for the house, they seem to work ok. In fact with some, the colder it gets, the higher the COP gets.
 
200sols said:
It depends, £2k for a direct replacement in the same place gas boiler is feasible, £2-3k is more likely for most people. Whichever way you spin it heat pumps are significantly more expensive to install because of all the extra work that is needed.
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However it isn't cut and dry, since not everyone will require the same amount of work doing. So you can't just state £15k vs £2k and hope people will ignore it, unless you want to work for a newspaper making headlines that sound great but aren't true all of the time.

I've had quote from as low as £8.7k all the way to £18k for an air source heat pump, it is the last piece of my puzzle to get rid of gas for good, this is for the same house with the same requirements, just different vendors/installers. Obviously that is more than a boiler, but I needed a new water tank anyhow since the one I have is from the 60's/70's and with the inclusion of Solar I can now use that to also heat my water, I am also redecorating several rooms, all of which are having new rads, since most are totally shot. So as you can see just swapping out my 20+ year old boiler would be a bit cheaper, - my individual circumstances - everyone's will be different and just splatting £15k vs £2k is a lie.
 
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