The English Channel

[bloodiedathame]

We've bombed the **** out of most of their countries and plundered their natural resources throughout history... And have a fairly tolerant stance on immigration (compared to Australia and the USA). Go figure.

 

[danlightbulb]

Well that was my question : is there any evidence they are actually worse?

I dont know objectively if they are worse or the same or slightly better or a lot better. My intuition says they are either the same or worse than the degenerates in our society already. Some might be marginally better and just need an opportunity, but the vast majority are not/poorly educated, possibly highly religious, and from a completely different cultural system with different morals.

If an objective in our country is to improve standards and moral fibre (and it should be an objective), then keeping diluting this with more lower educated people is not going to help.

 

[200sols]

what do you think happens if millions of people suddenly are allowed here?


when there is no housing, no infrastructure, no public services, no hospital/dental/gp capacity for them.


A race to the bottom turning our country into theres (not literally or culturally) but we would be one of the poorest countries in europe fast

I'm not saying let them, I don't want them here either. Just point out your argument was wrong.

 

[arknor]

I'm not saying let them, I don't want them here either. Just point out your argument was wrong.

yea I know that. but it's comparable to letting millions in.

we don't have the capacity or economy for it.

Austerity since the 80s more like

The grass isn't even greener here it's all BS myths, I bet depression amongst migrants who come here must be massive when they realise the kinda life they can expect

Honestly I'm a Heartless and couldn't care less about people I don't know dying, but I feel sorry for the migrants who do end up here not realising what they are getting into.

it's no surprise a few of them go off the rails and commit terrorism offences, I'm surprised more of our own poor don't do the same and just decide to go out with a bang, maybe take a politician with you.

out of sight out of mind is our countries policy

 

[cheesyboy]

. My intuition says they are either the same or worse than the degenerates in our society already

If people were leaving the UK for asylum elsewhere, do you think it would be more likely to be the 'degenerates' or the somewhat more educated who travelled halfway across the world, rather than being one of the majority who took up asylum in a neighbouring country?

Like, can you imagine 'degenerates' having the wherewithal to make that decision and make that journey?

 

[explicit4u]

If they're likely to vote for parties that would provide that infrastructure I'm more than happy to let them in and provide safe passage over the channel.

 

[200sols]

If people were leaving the UK for asylum elsewhere, do you think it would be more likely to be the 'degenerates' or the somewhat more educated who travelled halfway across the world, rather than being one of the majority who took up asylum in a neighbouring country?

Like, can you imagine 'degenerates' having the wherewithal to make that decision and make that journey?

Its a bit of a stretch even for you to claim these are the well educated people.

 

[danlightbulb]

If people were leaving the UK for asylum elsewhere, do you think it would be more likely to be the 'degenerates' or the somewhat more educated who travelled halfway across the world, rather than being one of the majority who took up asylum in a neighbouring country?

Like, can you imagine 'degenerates' having the wherewithal to make that decision and make that journey?

It may be true that the ones who leave are the more educated amongst their own people, however compared to us, they are lower educated.

There should be a benefit to our country from having these people here. Its not a free for all.

 

[arknor]

If people were leaving the UK for asylum elsewhere, do you think it would be more likely to be the 'degenerates' or the somewhat more educated who travelled halfway across the world, rather than being one of the majority who took up asylum in a neighbouring country?

Like, can you imagine 'degenerates' having the wherewithal to make that decision and make that journey?

the middle classes would be the migrants leaving, will be the same for every country.

the real needy and desperate don't have the ability to up sticks and start a new life

does that mean we should let them in for abandoning their own people? or should we be looking to help the actual poverty people and tell the well of economic migrants to do one

 

[cheesyboy]

It may be true that the ones who leave are the more educated amongst their own people, however compared to us, they are lower educated.

There should be a benefit to our country from having these people here. Its not a free for all.

The main home country of UK asylum seekers is Iran, which has a good education system.

These sorts of assumptions should trigger some curiosity in you, so you don't keep making silly judgements.

 

[potatolord]

Acceptance changes, "standards" may change, but actual morals do not. The harm principle underpins natural law and is essentially what morality is.

Oh, come on, morals change all the time. A cursory look at any history book proves that.

And that is aside from the fact that different countries and cultures hold wildly different views on moral behaviour at any given time.

Natural justice or morals don't really exist, except as a philosophical concept.

I am not making any appeal to the moral high ground here. Few things (e.g. theft is universally seen as wrong) are condemned by all cultures.

It's important to understand that personal views are only one's own and even those may change in time.

 

[danlightbulb]

The main home country of UK asylum seekers is Iran, which has a good education system.

These sorts of assumptions should trigger some curiosity in you, so you don't keep making silly judgements.

Taking Iran as the example, do you think people should be coming here from Iran? Its quite a popular country for tourists to visit, it has a strong economy, as you say it has a decent education system. Yes it may be undemocratic and religiously biased, however it is not a war torn country from which people should be seeking refuge.

 

[arknor]

Taking Iran as the example, do you think people should be coming here from Iran? Its quite a popular country for tourists to visit, it has a strong economy, as you say it has a decent education system. Yes it may be undemocratic and religiously biased, however it is not a war torn country from which people should be seeking refuge.

there will be african countries like somalia with genocide and civil war still happening.
but we don't take those migrants for some reason even they are the legit ones.

we want the fairly well off people from middle eastern countries

 

[StriderX]

Taking Iran as the example, do you think people should be coming here from Iran? Its quite a popular country for tourists to visit, it has a strong economy, as you say it has a decent education system. Yes it may be undemocratic and religiously biased, however it is not a war torn country from which people should be seeking refuge.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/iran

I mean

The Foreign, Commonwealth & Development Office (FCDO) advise British-Iranian dual nationals against all travel to Iran.
The FCDO advise all British nationals against all travel to:

• within 100km of the entire Iran/Afghanistan border
• within 10km of the entire Iran/Iraq border
• the province of Sistan-Baluchistan
• the area east of the line running from Bam to Jask, including Bam

 

[danlightbulb]

@StriderX

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/iran/narratives/practical-information/directory/dangers-annoyances

Iran is generally a very safe place to travel, so much so that many travellers describe it as the ‘safest country I’ve ever been to’, or ‘much safer than travelling in Europe’. Violent crime against foreigners is extremely rare and, indeed, if you do your best to fit in with local customs, you are unlikely to be treated with anything but courtesy and friendliness – that applies to Americans, too.

Im not saying I would go there. But should we be taking asylum seekers from there, especially if they are men?

 

[explicit4u]

there will be african countries like somalia with genocide and civil war still happening.
but we don't take those migrants for some reason even they are the legit ones.

we want the fairly well off people from middle eastern countries

We have one of the biggest Somalian communities in the world.

 

[StriderX]

@StriderX

https://www.lonelyplanet.com/iran/narratives/practical-information/directory/dangers-annoyances



Im not saying I would go there. But should we be taking asylum seekers from there, especially if they are men?

I guess it depends on who the Iranian government are being especially belligerent towards. That said the fact that so many Afghani refugees (+undocumented) remain in Iran ought to provide some level of comfort, though I imagine Iran must have a limit to how many they can take before they start pushing people onwards much like Jordan, Lebanon and such who've also taken the brunt of refugees.

 

[cheesyboy]

Taking Iran as the example, do you think people should be coming here from Iran? Its quite a popular country for tourists to visit, it has a strong economy, as you say it has a decent education system. Yes it may be undemocratic and religiously biased, however it is not a war torn country from which people should be seeking refuge.

The lack of democracy, the persecution of homosexuals and opposing political or religious beliefs are all reasons people may seek asylum elsewhere.

You really need to widen your understanding of asylum before making such strong proclamations as you have done. Recognise that you don't have the full picture before judging.

 

[danlightbulb]

The lack of democracy, the persecution of homosexuals and opposing political or religious beliefs are all reasons people may seek asylum elsewhere.

You really need to widen your understanding of asylum before making such strong proclamations as you have done. Recognise that you don't have the full picture before judging.

So a bunch of men want to come to UK from Iran. Hmm how to get asylum? I know, lets say we're gay!

We shouldn't be weak on it because you can never tell for sure if someone is telling the truth. Hence why I prefer the approach of fixing their home countries, rather than being reactive.

 

[FoxEye]

We've bombed the **** out of most of their countries and plundered their natural resources throughout history... And have a fairly tolerant stance on immigration (compared to Australia and the USA). Go figure.

"We" didn't do it, the governments of the day did it, and never with a referendum or anything to seek the approval of the populace.

And in some cases this happened before we were even born. I mean, the British Empire spread all over the world and did many immoral and questionable things.

So I don't think anyone should necessarily think that this is karma. But we should recognise that some of the people (maybe a lot of them) will be coming here purely for their personal benefit, whilst simultaneously disliking the British and our history and our culture.

This is something else that's often overlooked by the "we need unlimited immigration" crowd. If they don't integrate, they are a future problem. It really is that simple. And many of them flat out don't want to integrate. They want to be here, but they want to live like they were back in some ultra-conservative culture, which may or may not have blasphemy laws...