First new PC in well over 10 years - MATX build

petertr2000

petertr2000

petertr2000

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Joined
7 Feb 2011
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353
Hi all,
You might be sick of my posts by now, but PC tech is always moving, and its hard to play catch up.
My last system was an FX8250 (iirc) with a 6670HD ! So its been a while (since then I have a gaming laptop, which is creaking with its puny 2Gb VRAM).

I'm quite limited on budget, but thankfully I don't need an amazing machine. It will be connected to a 43" 4K TV that I use as my monitor (mostly for the real-estate while working - for which it is great) - its 60Hz only, so I have the "benefit" that I don't need to go above 60fps. Also happy to play in a Window at 1440p (I usually have to play in 1080p or even 720p at the moment due to the VRAM)

I don't have much space, and I also dislike big shiny PC cases anyway, so I have no interest in RGB or even being able to see inside the case at all - it'll be going on the floor out of sight so "whatever".

I would like a small build, mATX seems like I can get what I need without having to pay extra for mITX components?
I also think that I can get a lot of life out of this for my needs - maybe up to 8 years by upgrading the CPU from i3 to i7 and replacing the GPU in 3-4 years time. So I'm after a decent motherboard and PSU from the start.
Here is what I've come up with - any thoughts?
  • CPU Intel Core i3 12100F - £120
  • MB ASRock Z690M Phantom Gaming 4 - £150
  • RAM 2x8Gb Corsair DDR 4 3200 CL16 - £58
  • SSD 1TB Corsair MP600 CORE, M.2 (2280) PCIe 4.0 (x4) NVMe SSD - £105
  • PSU Seasonic FOCUS GX-750 750W 80+ GOLD MODULAR- £100
  • Case SilverStone PS15 PRO Black Mini Tower - £55
  • GPU 3060/3060ti when I can get my hands on one (Telegram notifications, hopefully)

Total £588 + GPU
 
I would push to the

Intel Core i5 12400F 6 Core Alder Lake CPU/Processor
Intel Core i5 12400F, S 1700, Alder Lake, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 2.5GHz, 4.4GHz Turbo, 18MB Cache, 65W, Retail
£180

Just for the extra cores and threads. Will also need a cooler and the freezer 34 wont fit the case before everyone shouts that one out!!!! :p

The silverstone case is a tenner cheaper at OCUK.

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £87.99 (includes shipping: £11.10)
​
 
dfour said:
I would push to the

Intel Core i5 12400F 6 Core Alder Lake CPU/Processor
Intel Core i5 12400F, S 1700, Alder Lake, 6 Cores, 12 Threads, 2.5GHz, 4.4GHz Turbo, 18MB Cache, 65W, Retail
£180

Just for the extra cores and threads. Will also need a cooler and the freezer 34 wont fit the case before everyone shouts that one out!!!! :p

The silverstone case is a tenner cheaper at OCUK.

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £87.99 (includes shipping: £11.10)
​
Click to expand...
Thanks.
That would add £90 for a small/moderate upgrade. I did think about the i5, and there's where I'd started from - but watching some reviews this last week, I really don't think I need it right now, especially if paring with a 3060.
And I can't help but think that if I take the i5 now, I'll never end up going up to the i7 in a few years time
 
petertr2000 said:
And I can't help but think that if I take the i5 now, I'll never end up going up to the i7 in a few years time
Click to expand...

If you look at it the other way though, if you take the i3 now, and outgrow it in a year or 2, you likely still won't get an i7 to slot into this board as they'll either difficult to get hold of or stupidly expensive used (as almost every other i7 has remained) - meaning it'd be almost as cost effective to move to a new motherboard+cpu+ram (as everything will be DDR5 by then)
 
There is no real reason to go to the i7 unless you need the extra cores and threads over the i5. If your only realy gaming I would start with a 6 core chip as a lot of games either are or are going towards needing more than 4 cores.

Better base than having to upgrade in a couple of years IMHO.
 
Armageus said:
If you look at it the other way though, if you take the i3 now, and outgrow it in a year or 2, you likely still won't get an i7 to slot into this board as they'll either difficult to get hold of or stupidly expensive used (as almost every other i7 has remained) - meaning it'd be almost as cost effective to move to a new motherboard+cpu+ram (as everything will be DDR5 by then)
Click to expand...
Looks like I can pick up an 8th Gen i7 for under £150 on ebay without any problem? That's the sort of time-lapse Im thinking about here. (and the i3's are going for about £50, so really £100 to upgrade at the time is nothing?)

This i3 is 80% faster single core and 180% faster overall than my existing i5, according to Passmark. Feels like this is easily as much a I need for now. And if I went for the i5, I don't think I'd even bother looking for an i7 upgrade down the line, so it would probably limit the usefulness of this rig by a couple of years.
 
dfour said:
There is no real reason to go to the i7 unless you need the extra cores and threads over the i5. If your only realy gaming I would start with a 6 core chip as a lot of games either are or are going towards needing more than 4 cores.

Better base than having to upgrade in a couple of years IMHO.
Click to expand...
I'd probably quite enjoy upgrading the CPU and GPU in 3-4 years time though. It would keep me on a "mid-range" system for maybe 8 years with a pretty limited spend.

I appreciate the feedback though. Its good to be challeged and have to re-think things.
Any others issues with the build?
 
petertr2000 said:
Looks like I can pick up an 8th Gen i7 for under £150 on ebay without any problem? That's the sort of time-lapse Im thinking about here. (and the i3's are going for about £50, so really £100 to upgrade at the time is nothing?)
Click to expand...

But in 2 years time when you are looking at the i7, even the next i3 will offer better performance.

Taking your current example if you'd bought an 8th gen i3 and wanted to upgrade to an 8th gen i7, isn't that £150 better put towards either a 12100f or 12400f?

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compar...i5-12400F-vs-Intel-i3-12100F/3098vs4681vs4670
 
Armageus said:
But in 2 years time when you are looking at the i7, even the next i3 will offer better performance.

Taking your current example if you'd bought an 8th gen i3 and wanted to upgrade to an 8th gen i7, isn't that £150 better put towards either a 12100f or 12400f?

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compar...i5-12400F-vs-Intel-i3-12100F/3098vs4681vs4670
Click to expand...
Has it been normal for the i3 of a generation to beat an i7 of 2 generations back? I had the feeling Alderlake was an outlier

That £150 ebay price is missing that I can sell my i3 for £50-70, so really its only ~£100 cost to me.

To properly upgrade, I'd have to buy another motherboard as well, which would be another ~£100 extra (after selling my MB) - and it would be DDR5 which would probably set me back £100 extra (after selling my DDR4)

So its £100 for the upgrade vs about £300 - albeit that would be a brand new machine, but still.
OR
A very simple remove and replace of the 12gen i3 for the i7. Nice and easy job.
(although admittedly I'd need a new cooler as well)

If I had an 8th Gen i3 today, I would be replacing it with an 8th gen i7 right now, and wouldn't be having this discussion really.
 
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I'd go 6c/12t 10400f over a 4c/8t 12100f, and stick with B560 board for now, no point in buying a Z690 if you are not changing the CPU out for 3-4 years as the socket is EOL this year with Rocket Lake. You are buying the cheapest lowest quality Z690, which isn't really worth while either. Went with a better M.2 drive as well. PSU will be fine for 10 years, assuming they don't start making mid-range GPU that need 500w!


CPU: Intel Core i5-10400F 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor
Motherboard: MSI B560M PRO-VDH WIFI Micro ATX LGA1200 Motherboard
Memory: Patriot Viper Steel 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory
Storage: Western Digital WD_BLACK SN750 SE 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive
Case: KOLINK Citadel Mesh MicroATX Mini Tower Case
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply

Total: ~£505.00
 
Journey said:
I'd go 6c/12t 10400f over a 4c/8t 12100f, and stick with B560 board for now, no point in buying a Z690 if you are not changing the CPU out for 3-4 years as the socket is EOL this year with Rocket Lake. You are buying the cheapest lowest quality Z690, which isn't really worth while either. Went with a better M.2 drive as well. PSU will be fine for 10 years, assuming they don't start making mid-range GPU that need 500w!


CPU: Intel Core i5-10400F 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor
Motherboard: MSI B560M PRO-VDH WIFI Micro ATX LGA1200 Motherboard
Memory: Patriot Viper Steel 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory
Storage: Western Digital WD_BLACK SN750 SE 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive
Case: KOLINK Citadel Mesh MicroATX Mini Tower Case
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS GX 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply

Total: ~£505.00
Click to expand...
Sorry, you've got me confused between Rocket and Alder lake there?

As for Z690 boards, yeah, I'm struggling to find much info on those. I was looking at a B660, but realised it was only £50 or so to jump up. That's one area I'm trying to find more about.
 
petertr2000 said:
Sorry, you've got me confused between Rocket and Alder lake there?

As for Z690 boards, yeah, I'm struggling to find much info on those. I was looking at a B660, but realised it was only £50 or so to jump up. That's one area I'm trying to find more about.
Click to expand...

Alder Lake isn't worth buying if you are using really low end 'now' - you'd get more benefit from the 10th Gen parts with more cores and threads for the next several years, the Rocket Lake is the replacement CPU's due out this year for LGA 1700, but after that it is another socket change for Meteor Lake in 2023.
So by the time you are looking to change your CPU in 2024/25, the older Z690 parts that would fit your board will be getting totally destroyed by the i3 16100 on a B960 board at a cost of £250 for the two parts, vs maybe spending £200 on a second hand Core i9 12900K or 13900K which will offer you less performance and on old RAM.
 
Journey said:
Alder Lake isn't worth buying if you are using really low end 'now' - you'd get more benefit from the 10th Gen parts with more cores and threads for the next several years, the Rocket Lake is the replacement CPU's due out this year for LGA 1700, but after that it is another socket change for Meteor Lake in 2023.
So by the time you are looking to change your CPU in 2024/25, the older Z690 parts that would fit your board will be getting totally destroyed by the i3 16100 on a B960 board at a cost of £250 for the two parts, vs maybe spending £200 on a second hand Core i9 12900K or 13900K which will offer you less performance and on old RAM.
Click to expand...
Thanks for clearing that up. Interesting.
 
B660 MATX boards start around £100 and the 12100F just over 100 with the 12400F around £170, pretty much any of these boards would be fine for either CPU in gaming where you'd only be around drawing 45w although I'd still go for a board that has a VRM heatsink.
 
petertr2000 said:
MB ASRock Z690M Phantom Gaming 4 - £150
Click to expand...

I would avoid the cheaper Asrock motherboards. Their low-end boards are generally pretty poor.

Do take a look at the Kolink Citadel Mesh case. I am very impressed with mine.

You might save some money by going for a PCIE v3 NVME drive. You're unlikely to notice the difference in speed. Use the money saved to get a better motherboard.

Journey said:
Alder Lake isn't worth buying if you are using really low end 'now'
Click to expand...

I disagree. If the requirement is for a solution now then there is no alternative from AMD and earlier Intel platforms do not support PCIe v5 and the 12400f is the king of the low end. If you get a decent motherboard it will cope with a full fat 12900k later on.

I would suggest

CPU: Intel 12400F
M/b: Asus Tuf Gaming D4 or Prime D4 or similar
RAM: DDR4-3200 or -3600
SSD: v3 NVME drive
Case: Kolink Citadel Mesh (OCUK don't seem to sell the Silverstone)

I built myself a very similar system around an 11400 this time last year.
 
Quartz said:
the 12400f is the king of the low end.
Click to expand...

It's 50% more expensive than the 10400f, which isn't 50% slower.

You say
Quartz said:
You might save some money by going for a PCIE v3 NVME drive
Click to expand...

Then immediately say
Quartz said:
earlier Intel platforms do not support PCIe v5
Click to expand...

Are you saying that PCI-E 5.0 will be required in 3 years, maybe 4.0 16x but not 5.0.

You should also read what I wrote regards to wasting money putting in a 12900K in 3 years, when £250 will buy you something better, as a board/CPU combo.
 
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