Dutch reach around

[Hades]

Whereas I've been hit as a cyclist and never hit anyone while cycling. What point are you trying to make?

Actually, your above reply really highlights why there are these priorities. In your incidents you had a scraped wing and your daughter was a bit shaken up. I assume no damage to the car as it would have been a tyre on rear bumper impact.

In my incident I went over the bonnet of a Mondeo, fractured a bone in my hand, bruised a couple of ribs and took a chunk out of my elbow... and got up thinking **** me that was lucky. As I know I dodged a massive bullet having so few injuries.

The fact is that there really should be an emphasis on protecting people on the roads. The comments about "causing an obstruction to the highway" for the whole 15 seconds it takes for someone to cross the road only go to highlight the very mindset that needs to change.

My point was that cyclists cause many accidents and it's not just cars. Both need to be aware of each other.

Apart from a helmet what protective gear were you wearing when you went over the bonnet?

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

It's meddling for meddling's sake imo.
I always look when opening the door, as a result I've never boshed a cyclist.
The other changes are dangerous imo, this is the least stupid one.

This.

 

[lordrobs]

My point was that cyclists cause many accidents and it's not just cars. Both need to be aware of each other.

Apart from a helmet what protective gear were you wearing when you went over the bonnet?

They absolutely do and they should be aware of each other. The main difference being the severity of the outcome for the two parties involved when a cyclist and motorist collide.

The wider picture has to be about respect and the acknowledgement that due to the form of transport they are using some people are more at risk and so need to be given greater priority.

I wasn't wearing any, like almost every single cyclist on the roads. In fact I wasn't wearing a helmet either on that occasion. What difference does that make? Or should I nip to the shops in full bike leathers, gloves, boots, full face helmet, kidney protectors...?

 

[hurfdurf]

Where did I say I had a source?

So you admit you are just posting rubbish, cool thanks for the contributions. Everyone’s got their own personal experiences, they are useless when dealing with actual discussions on national policy where actual facts and statistics are available that show your unique little taste on life is not the be all and end all of consideration.

The comments about "causing an obstruction to the highway" for the whole 15 seconds it takes for someone to cross the road only go to highlight the very mindset that needs to change.

Exactly. Drivers need to learn patience and to know their place, which is at the back of the queue. For too long drivers think they own the streets, little people with big man syndrome because they are surrounded by 1000kg plus of propelled metal.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

I’ll be more surprised if I actually saw a police car. Also, I’m barely flexible enough to use this method

What I’d really like is people to follow the basic Highway Code - like giving way at roundabouts and stopping at red lights.

 

[2004typer]

Drivers need to learn patience and to know their place, which is at the back of the queue. For too long drivers think they own the streets, little people with big man syndrome because they are surrounded by 1000kg plus of propelled metal.

Don't agree with this view at all - no issue at all with the principal of protecting vulnerable road users but there is a bigger picture of mutual respect between all road users, no matter if this is a pedestrian, a cyclist or a double decker bus.

There is nothing wrong with the current rules, but with the new implementation it's only a matter of time before this causes many accidents that would simply not occur at present.

I just do not see the logic in making a driver stop to allow a pedestrian to cross unless they are on a designated crossing point that would inherently have enough space for a driver to stop safely.

I can just see it coming, a pedestrian crossing the road right on the junction of a quiet side road fed from a busy main road. Driver doesn't have enough space to get fully around the corner so ends up either stopping on the main road or partially sticking out while said pedestrian makes their crossing. Obviously in an ideal world the drivers behind the driver turning would see the signal and slow down accordingly, but we all know very well that we don't live in a perfect world and the risk of a rear end collision and multi car pile up will have been significantly increased in this exact scenario.

I can't fathom why we can't stick to the principal of pedestrians having to wait until the route is clear, and if this means observing an indicating driver clears their path before crossing surely that remains the safest option for all parties?

Nothing to do with lack of patience at all, the last thing I'd want to do is run a person over or do a dangerous manoeuvre to save me all of 10 seconds. I'm happy to sit and wait for people to cross, but I also don't want to be rear ended and made to stop in a position that causes an obstruction and danger.

 

[Gixer]

Most cyclists who get killed get killed trying to squeeze past buses and lorries in towns. Many fall off from their own mistakes, or hit cars and the driver automatically gets blamed. Ive never seen a car hit a cyclist, only cyclists hit cars.

Hadn't happened to me before yesterday evening and I've been cycle commuting for just over 20years now. I was already positioned very defensively, as in pretty much on centreline of the road, I'd moved to there whilst nothing was close enough behind me to worry about, I'm holding 25 to 26mph and I was turning right in 50 or so yards. Hear a diesel engine being flogged approaching from behind and start thinking they're going to go for an undertake at which point I stick out my arm to indicate I'm turning right in 25 or so yards to have my hand smacked into by the vans wing mirror! The knock made pulled me a little closer and I managed to give the side of the van a good hit before it had fully passed. Naturally that was followed my multiple hand gestures and verbal obscenities. Guessing it was doing around 40mph as it passed, in a 30mph limit.

Whatever the rules are you'll never stop drivers like the above, one that has to get past a cyclist or obstruction at whatever cost. I had a solid rear light (hope) and a rear LED flasher illuminated, wearing fluro jacket, helmet, gloves etc. It was 16:05 so still daylight. Positioned defensively to try prevent what happened from happening. I was travelling at 25 to 27mph. Just a driver willing to kill someone for the sake of a 1 to 2 second hold up.

No anount of highway code change will fix the attitude problem some seem to have.

 

[Gixer]

Dutch reach around sounds like some dirty sex act from the red light district of Amsterdam

Look up Dutch Rudder in the urban dictionary, maybe that's what you're after?

 

[2004typer]

Hadn't happened to me before yesterday evening and I've been cycle commuting for just over 20years now. I was already positioned very defensively, as in pretty much on centreline of the road, I'd moved to there whilst nothing was close enough behind me to worry about, I'm holding 25 to 26mph and I was turning right in 50 or so yards. Hear a diesel engine being flogged approaching from behind and start thinking they're going to go for an undertake at which point I stick out my arm to indicate I'm turning right in 25 or so yards to have my hand smacked into by the vans wing mirror! The knock made pulled me a little closer and I managed to give the side of the van a good hit before it had fully passed. Naturally that was followed my multiple hand gestures and verbal obscenities. Guessing it was doing around 40mph as it passed, in a 30mph limit.

Whatever the rules are you'll never stop drivers like the above, one that has to get past a cyclist or obstruction at whatever cost. I had a solid rear light (hope) and a rear LED flasher illuminated, wearing fluro jacket, helmet, gloves etc. It was 16:05 so still daylight. Positioned defensively to try prevent what happened from happening. I was travelling at 25 to 27mph. Just a driver willing to kill someone for the sake of a 1 to 2 second hold up.

No anount of highway code change will fix the attitude problem some seem to have.

Yeah sounds like an absolute idiot, and regardless of the rule change they will carry on regardless.

The losers in the rule changes are going to be the good drivers, when an idiot such as above goes into the back of them.

 

[Rroff]

Don't agree with this view at all - no issue at all with the principal of protecting vulnerable road users but there is a bigger picture of mutual respect between all road users, no matter if this is a pedestrian, a cyclist or a double decker bus.

Indeed - you need to be able to make progress as a car driver or it just gets silly. That doesn't excuse the people who are impatient and don't give more vulnerable or other road users due consideration.

Problem is in reality the roads are just too busy these days and in all too many cases a mix of road users where there is a large variation in speeds causes a problem.

 

[Hades]

I wasn't wearing any, like almost every single cyclist on the roads. In fact I wasn't wearing a helmet either on that occasion. What difference does that make? Or should I nip to the shops in full bike leathers, gloves, boots, full face helmet, kidney protectors...?

Whenever I get on my motorbike I am dressed head to toe in armoured, abrasion resistant, clothing. I won't ride it without wearing it. If I crash at cycling speeds I'll get up and walk off with probably minimal injuries (most likely nothing). I also ride incredibly defensively because I am obviously more vulnerable than car drivers. Wearing full leathers on a cycle is obviously overkill and ridiculous. But a cycling helmet, gloves, knee and elbow pads would prevent a large number of injuries to cyclists. But almost no riders wear them, I assume because they don't look great. They don't seem to want to be protected and value looks over safety.

So you admit you are just posting rubbish, cool thanks for the contributions.

Ahhh, the Cathy Newman Lobster defense "So what you're saying is..." I most humbly apologise for not jumping to attention and finding sources for a random stranger on the internet. But I'm sure you can find them yourself.

 

[Firegod]

I think we can summise that if you cycle and been hit by a car you would naturally say cars cause accidents and like wise if in a car and been hit by a cyclist you would say that cyclists cause accidents. All down to perspective I guess. But I think we'd all agree that everybody out on the road has a potential to cause an accident and there are always those that will not wait for cyclists or horses. But its nice to read some comments from those who cycle that they try and proactively look out for areas where problems could arise. There is a lot of emphasis put onto drivers to protect cyclists, which is fair, but it should work both ways and sometimes I think there are those that put all the responsibility on drivers to look out for them when actually they could also do their own bit to help protect themselves. The opening of the door is interesting. Is it the cars occupants responsibility to look, or should cyclists passing by slow down and give more room? I say, both. But I'm sure the deabte will rage on.

 

[Bear]

The opening of the door is interesting. Is it the cars occupants responsibility to look, or should cyclists passing by slow down and give more room? I say, both. But I'm sure the deabte will rage on.

There really isn’t any debate to be had, it is solely the responsibility for the occupants of the vehicle to check, or do you think it would be a lorry’s fault that it ripped your door off because you or your rear passenger opened the door in front of it?

A cyclist, if they had any sense would ride outside of the dooring zone which would mean riding further out into the middle of the lane to avoid it happening, unfortunately you then get ***** driving cars getting annoyed that you aren’t further to the side of the road.

 

[arknor]

Think the dutch reach is a good idea but the change to give priority to waiting pedestrians when turning into a side road seems very poorly thought out. I think that change will lead to more incidents with pedestrians and more cars being hit up the rear when stopping halfway through the turn.

as a pedestrian I hate it when I'm about to cross a road someone wants to turn into... they stop and motion for me to cross...

dood I'm clearly stood waiting for you to go around... sometimes I motion for them to go, then they motion back that I should cross...

then I'm feeling like I need to jog over the road... just go damn it..

I don't get why pedestrians should have priority it will just lead to people expecting to cross without looking because "cars at fault"

The opening of the door is interesting. Is it the cars occupants responsibility to look, or should cyclists passing by slow down and give more room? I say, both. But I'm sure the deabte will rage on.

so you want a cyclist to constantly be slowing down every few minutes? cyclists can't win...

not allowed in middle of road.
not allowed at side of road.
annoying cyclists slows my commute by 5 seconds but if it were a tractor or a tank I would probably not be bothered.

some drivers attitudes are disgusting.

try being a cyclist for a week and see how many brushes with death you have because of other people...

roundabouts are a nightmare even if you have priority some people in a car just go anyway because "I'm faster and would over take you in a few minutes anyway"


I didn't bother cycling for the last few years and I'm too scared to get back into it now.

too many terrible drivers on the road and apparently all cyclists are *****


ahh yes we don't pay road tax and we don't own the road....... I wish truck drivers took that attitude and just rammed the crap out of cars for "being in the way" lol not my problem your in a small metal cage with no protection son...... maybe you shoudn't be on the road

 

[2004typer]

as a pedestrian I hate it when I'm about to cross a road someone wants to turn into... they stop and motion for me to cross...

dood I'm clearly stood waiting for you to go around... sometimes I motion for them to go, then they motion back that I should cross...

then I'm feeling like I need to jog over the road... just go damn it..

I don't get why pedestrians should have priority it will just lead to people expecting to cross without looking because "cars at fault"

Precisely how I feel.

I'm just waiting for the pedestrian war mongerer stood at a deliberately awkward junction with their phone camera on recording mode to catch out "offenders", or perhaps I'm a bit cynical and no one in their right mind would do this.

 

[labbby]

Pretty sure there has been a law/section of the road traffic act that has pretty much covered this for years anyway..

ah here we go

 

[hurfdurf]

I can just see it coming, a pedestrian crossing the road right on the junction of a quiet side road fed from a busy main road. Driver doesn't have enough space to get fully around the corner so ends up either stopping on the main road or partially sticking out while said pedestrian makes their crossing. Obviously in an ideal world the drivers behind the driver turning would see the signal and slow down accordingly, but we all know very well that we don't live in a perfect world and the risk of a rear end collision and multi car pile up will have been significantly increased in this exact scenario.

Hence drivers needing an attitude adjustment. This is entirely a situation where a car driver is at complete fault, and as we adjust to more progressive advanced European practices car drivers will begin to understand their place and responsibilities to others. It will also highlight bad drivers as the current attitude and standards of driving in regards to pedestrian and cyclist is abhorrent.

 

[labbby]

Personally I think a lot of it's down to personal responsibility and common sense, I stay well away from parked cars especially in villages and towns, not just for doors being opened but for pedestrians walking out between them.

I also think some drivers don't appreciate how fast modern road bikes are, I've had many near misses with cars pulling out of junctions.

As for this new round about rule, there is no way I'm going to trust some big ass lorry to give me right of way when I'm out on the bike. The rules for round abouts were clear and never a problem.. the problem was user error.

 

[2004typer]

Hence drivers needing an attitude adjustment. This is entirely a situation where a car driver is at complete fault, and as we adjust to more progressive advanced European practices car drivers will begin to understand their place and responsibilities to others. It will also highlight bad drivers as the current attitude and standards of driving in regards to pedestrian and cyclist is abhorrent.

Fully agree there are some abhorrent drivers out there, but I'd bet most people (me included) would allow a pedestrian the right of way where safe to do so. I just think this change to the highway code introduces a needless complexity and a daft addition giving a pedestrian the right of way on a carriageway in the circumstances now permitted.

The abhorrent drivers will still continue, but now we have a stick to throw at good drivers due to the added confusion in the mix, which in my view has the potential for an accident where it could have been avoided before.

 

[Resident]

The cycling lobby are extremely vocal about car drivers leaving insufficient space when overtaking a cyclist, are they not following their own guidance when overtaking a stationary vehicle ? I distinctly remember my driving instructor ensuring I left a good gap in that situation precisely because someone might not look properly and open a door on you. It does seem to be legislating what should be common sense.

Maybe that space should be defined so that cyclists are aware.

We could get our police farces to help advertising it by parking a traffic unit and have a coloured plastic mat laid next to it on the ground. Perhaps the distance should be 1.5metres...