Coding courses to start a career

[Taylor7500]

In short, I've been trying for a long time to start a career in coding and software development, with not a lot of success. I have a masters in Physics which gives some experience, but of course if a CompSci grad comes along they are almost always seen as a much safer bet for the company.

I have come across a few people selling courses to develop your skills, and then using their industry contacts to find you a position when you are done. I am somewhat skeptical of these - I looked into some of them a few years ago who could definitely market themselves well but under the surface raised a few red flags. But there's another one I see which wants to charge £7000 for 13 weeks of JavaScript and while they don't say that you will certainly get a job at the end of it, their marketing is of course set up to suggest that you do.

I just don't have the industry knowledge to know whether these courses are a good idea or if they're a glorified scam. A few of my friends are rather skeptical of it all so I'm not sure what the best course of action is.

In short, are these types of courses worthwhile or am I better off, say, getting specific certs in the languages I know, or getting a coding-adjacent job and looking to transition over?

 

[blairw]

I think it really depends on what you want to do really? Do you do any programming at the moment? Have you built anything for a portfolio / do you contribute to open source projects at all? What languages are you looking at - you mention JavaScript, do you want to do Front End Web Development? Modern App Development on stuff like React? Full Stack?

Some of the popular bootcamps are the likes of Home | Flatiron School, Coding Bootcamp | Le Wagon, up here in Scotland - Digital Skills & Coding Academy - Edinburgh, Glasgow & Inverness - CodeClan

Ultimately the bootcamp is only part of the puzzle, get a GitHub Profile created with your work, contribute to OSS from there, Built an online presence, attend user groups / coding meet ups in your city etc

 

[dlockers]

Scam.

 

[Taylor7500]

I think it really depends on what you want to do really? Do you do any programming at the moment? Have you built anything for a portfolio / do you contribute to open source projects at all? What languages are you looking at - you mention JavaScript, do you want to do Front End Web Development? Modern App Development on stuff like React? Full Stack?

Thank you for the reply. I know Java and C++ pretty well and have to do bits of SQL for my current job (data QA). I really want to build up a portfolio but I wouldn't really know what to start with. I can recreate the set projects I did for part of my degree but after the more basic ones designed to teach the concept, most of my work was part of a much larger project which I can't easily replicate. I put little things together to help learn new things and keep my hand in but they're usually quick and easy things which I don't think are worth sharing.

Ideally I'd like to do something in C++ usually toward the technical back end of things, but I'm not particularly picky. I know Javascript is much more about web development so is a bit of a different thing but my guess is it's better to get something almost official on the CV to show that I'll know what I'm doing and can do best practices as well as get that first job so I have proper experience to go on. As far as I can see the big challenge is getting things started and working from there. But of course correct me if I'm wrong.

Scam.

Would you mind elaborating? I know that if I already had some good experience and qualifications it'd be entirely unnecessary but as a starting step to "transition" into things does it work?

 

[dlockers]

Would you mind elaborating? I know that if I already had some good experience and qualifications it'd be entirely unnecessary but as a starting step to "transition" into things does it work?

Wherever the equation can be summarised like this:
Give money = get training + job

Where 'get training' can be cancelled out for free:

Get training (for free) + Give money = job

We can cancel both sides out:

Give money = get job

This equation is just utter nonsense as that isn't how jobs work. £7k for a Java course is daylight robbery and presumably they offer a handy dandy financing plan too

 

[mid_gen]

You don't need to spend any money to learn to code....there are endless free sources of information out there.

This is an introductory course from Princeton...free. Uses Java, but really, starting out, language is irrelevant, you need to learn the concepts. Once you've got that, picking up other languages is easy. Computer Science: Programming with a Purpose | Coursera

Loads of other good free courses available on there.

For the love of god do not give someone 7 grand for a programming course.

 

[radderfire]

How have you tried to start your coding career?

In what way have you not had a lot of success?

 

[Taylor7500]

I've applied for a fair few jobs (keeping it simple, entry level bits), but not succeeded. The way my CV stands I had a great bit of simulation work for my degree and I can say that I know my stuff in Java and C++ but ultimately there is an unfortunate element of them needing to take me on faith because after the degree in terms of hard, verifiable evidence, there's not a lot there. I figure something which leads to a starter job, even if I will eventually want to transition away from it, will at least be beneficial since it's actual hard experience.

There are undoubtedly other factors (like the fact I live in the rural back end of nowhere) but I can see that if I were to go up against someone who for example did a degree in Computer Science and has projects out the ass to show for it, then from a company's perspective I am the more risky choice to consider.

As I say, do correct me if I'm wrong or I've got it all backwards.

 

[blairw]

I'd say the second part of my message is key, I wouldn't go so far to say bootcamps are a scam, they can be very useful for people looking to make career transitions, particularly those from diverse backgrounds - Ultimately the bootcamp is only part of the puzzle, get a GitHub Profile created with your work, contribute to OSS from there, Built an online presence, attend user groups / coding meet ups in your city etc

 

[peterwalkley]

As already said, don't fork out money: there's loads of good free courses out there. Seven grand for javascript is utterly taking the wee, you'd pick it up in no time with Java and C++ under your belt. I'd suggest typescript though as javascript duck typing makes me cringe every time. Claiming "industry contacts" to get you a job smells like utter bull poop to me. Those contacts are probably a scrape of linkedin - I get emailed CV's from random agents all the time and its clear they've done zero research and I hit delete without even looking.

Have you got work in Java / C++ / SQL you can show ? Something on github for example. A masters in physics should be showing you're not thick or lazy. You're getting interviews which is a good sign, so it may just be a case of plugging away until you get something.

You also mention you live in a rural backwater. Location really is key - you need to be fishing in a bigger pond. Far more jobs in the big cities and tech corridors than out in the sticks.

 

[Taylor7500]

Fair enough, thank you for the insight. As with all these things, they market themselves well. But if you know that inside the industry the idea that they have a steady stream of contacts to take people on afterwards is likely nonsense and they're just doing a shoddier job of the applications processes I'm going through anyway, then it's definitely not worth it. I don't think it's a complete scam as I heard about this course from someone who has been through it and got a job out the other end, but if as you say I'm paying a huge amount to just do what I'm already doing then it's not worth it. To be honest, for me, the course isn't so much about learning JavaScript as it is about getting the career started, but if it's not necessary then I'd much rather not be down 7 grand.

Thanks for the advice on a Github - I'll get started building a portfolio there. I'll need to find a project to start with but I'm sure I'll think of something. And if nothing else it's a good excuse to learn more C++.

On a similar vein, is it worth pursuing certs in C++ and other languages? I see some people say they're good and others say that nobody cares about them. I figure anything that adds evidence that I know my stuff is good but then if I knew how things worked in the industry I probably wouldn't be in the position I'm in now.

 

[peterwalkley]

Personally I don't rate certs in the programming world. They prove you can pass an exam, not that you can do the job.

 

[radderfire]

What would you say your ideal job would be? What kind of things would you be working on? If you were asked to do this work today, how easily could you do it? How good a coder do you think you are? What evidence have you got that can actually prove this?

I am of the opinion that if you are a reasonable/good coder, then there are all sorts of businesses absolutely crying out for you, so it should not be hard to get a job. Something must be going wrong for you.

I would also say you need to get going with github, and start making contributions to projects, and getting to know other coders, who will be a source of information for job opportunities. You need to find the github projects that interest you, and these could lead to job opportunities or provide evidence of your skill level. Bitcoin is written in C++, and the project needs reviewers and testers for the Pull Requests, so that's something you could get involved in.

 

[swillsy]

Don't pay for stuff like this, it's pretty much a scam - build up your portfolio and hammer youtube for tutorials etc. If you can show off something in an interview you're going to have an advantage.

When it comes to job searching - now is a great time as there is a skills shortage everywhere so just be prepared to travel etc and apply lots until you're successful

 

[HACO]

I just don't have the industry knowledge to know whether these courses are a good idea or if they're a glorified scam. A few of my friends are rather skeptical of it all so I'm not sure what the best course of action is.

In short, are these types of courses worthwhile or am I better off, say, getting specific certs in the languages I know, or getting a coding-adjacent job and looking to transition over?

Maybe not technically a scam, but definitely rip-off. You can get computer science lectures at most unis for free anyway. Work through those, work through websites like Leetcode to prep for interviews, and apply for jobs until you land your first one. Then go from there.

Given your physics background lots of people try to gravitate towards data science/engineering too, that may also be something to consider.

 

[Spiritwolf]

As a hiring manager for a major tech firm, and started my career in a startup, here are my 2 cents.

- Your degrees as long as it is numerical doesn't really matter too much, comp sci is an advantage but not a big one if you can demonstrate coding skills.
- Most coding courses are a waste of time, and will not give you as much advantage, there are a few that is worth doing that people in the industry will know, but mostly junk.
- Most certification / creditation (like microsoft cloud artitect, oracle java associate etc) will also not mean much unless you are aim to be contracting.
- Don't bother try contributing to open source projects, it will take you months to get going and people will likely not bother checking
- If you do have github try do some small interesting projects in there instead, stuff you can do independently.
- For small tech company you want to go wide, know a little of everything.
- For large tech firms, you want to go deep, specialise in area and that area alone.
- You will get paid way more in large tech firms than smaller ones.
- Keep up with the latest tech / features and be prepared to use it in coding tests, e.g. JDK11, Typescript 4.4 annocations etc.


P.S send your CV over, if it is good I can enrol you to the graduate programme within our team, if not I can give you some tips on how to get started.

 

[Dunks]

As a hiring manager for a major tech firm, and started my career in a startup, here are my 2 cents.

- Your degrees as long as it is numerical doesn't really matter too much, comp sci is an advantage but not a big one if you can demonstrate coding skills.
- Most coding courses are a waste of time, and will not give you as much advantage, there are a few that is worth doing that people in the industry will know, but mostly junk.
- Most certification / creditation (like microsoft cloud artitect, oracle java associate etc) will also not mean much unless you are aim to be contracting.
- Don't bother try contributing to open source projects, it will take you months to get going and people will likely not bother checking
- If you do have github try do some small interesting projects in there instead, stuff you can do independently.
- For small tech company you want to go wide, know a little of everything.
- For large tech firms, you want to go deep, specialise in area and that area alone.
- You will get paid way more in large tech firms than smaller ones.
- Keep up with the latest tech / features and be prepared to use it in coding tests, e.g. JDK11, Typescript 4.4 annocations etc.


P.S send your CV over, if it is good I can enrol you to the graduate programme within our team, if not I can give you some tips on how to get started.

I'm also trying to change my career from mechanical engineering (also what my degree is in) to software development, specifically web development and agree with these points.

I found some courses worthwhile (free ones) at the start of my journey to get an introduction into it all, but most of the experience you need will generally come from working on your own personal projects and not following courses. For https://www.freecodecamp.org/ was brilliant, but use it as a launch pad into doing your own projects as that's when I've found you really start learning, working on proper problems.

Create a Github profile and start working on personal projects to showcase to potential employers what you can do, I've had a few interviews so far and this is generally what they've been interested in.

@Spiritwolf what sort of devs are you looking for?

 

[Spiritwolf]

I'm also trying to change my career from mechanical engineering (also what my degree is in) to software development, specifically web development and agree with these points.

I found some courses worthwhile (free ones) at the start of my journey to get an introduction into it all, but most of the experience you need will generally come from working on your own personal projects and not following courses. For https://www.freecodecamp.org/ was brilliant, but use it as a launch pad into doing your own projects as that's when I've found you really start learning, working on proper problems.

Create a Github profile and start working on personal projects to showcase to potential employers what you can do, I've had a few interviews so far and this is generally what they've been interested in.

@Spiritwolf what sort of devs are you looking for?

Java Platform Dev
Scala Data Dev
Frontend Node.js / Angular Dev

 

[montymint]

My route into development was via support.

Tier 1 (2 years) > Tier 2 (SQL work with minor code fixes) (3 years) > Developer

Current employer is where I went from T2 > dev and they are really nice about things as they know my coding is weaker than others. So they are happy for me to learn on the job, take longer than expected etc.

 

[Dunks]

Frontend Node.js / Angular Dev

Sent you a PM