Coding courses to start a career

[reflux]

My background is more on the design side, but I helped recruit and manage some front end devs over a few years.

When we were recruiting, we wanted to see a portfolio demonstrating the candidate's knowledge and problem solving abilities. A candidate with a portfolio that featured a range of pieces of work (explaining how they solved various development problems and what they learnt) was a big thumbs up from our perspective. Unfortunately we received quite a lot of applications which said things like 'confident in CSS' but when you receive loads of those there's no real way of telling them apart. The portfolio is your key there because you can actually demonstrate what you can do.

As for learning, there are loads of really good free courses out there. If you're starting at the beginning, Codecademy is a good place.

 

[dowie]

I've applied for a fair few jobs (keeping it simple, entry level bits), but not succeeded. The way my CV stands I had a great bit of simulation work for my degree and I can say that I know my stuff in Java and C++ but ultimately there is an unfortunate element of them needing to take me on faith because after the degree in terms of hard, verifiable evidence, there's not a lot there.

It's not quite so clear what you need a course for in that case? Bootcamps are expensive, they might "work" in some cases but they seem a bit suboptimal. I don't believe you're likely getting much from them that you couldn't learn for yourself.

I don't think the lack of a CS degree is the issue here, employers are often just as happy with a maths/physics/engineering grad. You know how to code, you had some coding in your degree course... that's fine.

Maybe there is something wrong with your CV or with how you handle yourself in interviews? Or perhaps was your degree less attractive on paper - say a 2:2 or 3rd from a low-ranking university?

The degree itself ought to be enough for grad schemes/junior roles but some online courses and/or small projects on Github could help with that lack of evidence you're concerned about. You don't need to splash out £7000 or whatever on a bootcamp when the likes of coursera/edx and udacity exist (in the latter case "nanodegrees" with projects + career advice is available).
Obvs you perhaps don't need the basic programming courses but maybe an algorithms course or perhaps something specific to a particular area might be interesting.

Lastly, I guess just bash out some hacker rank and leetcode problems to make sure you're well prepared for your next interviews/tests.

 

[mid_gen]

If you want C++ work btw, I think the single most important thing to do is first read Scott Meyers' Effective C++. Look up anything that you need to dive into further, but if you can read that book and understand each item, you're halfway there. Then read his Effective Modern C++ book, understand it all. You've now got 95% of the language knowledge required for most jobs.

Finally, read the C++ Programming Language, the full reference by Bjarne Stroustrup. Don't be put off by it's size, Bjarne is a great writer, it's very easy to read.

 

[Pho]

I'm a full-stack dev (apps, frontends, backends, infrastructure - whatever) so I'm a bit of a jack of all trades kind of person. My primary languages tend to be C#/Java.

I think C++ is fairly niche nowadays. Yes it's still popular, but most of the time it's more of an inconvenience to write in over another faster (albeit slightly slower to execute) language.

Python is massively popular and heavily used in maths/science and AI applications so I would consider learning this. And the best part is if you find Python to be a bit too slow for something you're doing you can actually write Python extensions in C++. That would be a really handy niche for you to learn.

You can learn pretty much everything you need for free online, via Youtube etc. Udemy has tonnes of courses you can buy for cheap as well (wait until they go on offer - they always go on offer).

 

[MikeTimbers]

Some courses may be a scam but some most definitely are not. e.g. Makers in London (no affiliation or business relationship). Makers teach not just coding but all the appropriate processes, Jira, Agile, Github, documentation, ideation, idea presentation, etc. It's intense and hard to get onto. At the end there is a job fair where big companies come to try to hire the course graduates. I'm talking big companies that are extremely hard to get into like Deloitte (I am ex-Deloitte). It is extremely rare for a course graduate to not get a great job at the end of it and it's common to see very experienced people looking for a career change to buy courses from Makers.

I've worked at Deloitte with a coder who came from Makers who would never have been hired via the normal graduate recruitment process but was doing very well.

 

[dowie]

Some courses may be a scam but some most definitely are not. e.g. Makers in London (no affiliation or business relationship).

I'm not sure anyone is saying these things are a "scam" per se but just that they're expensive and there are better alternatives in many cases. I mean that course seems to teach some Ruby and Javascript, if you want to be spoon-fed some practical skills 9-5 for several weeks, in-person lessons, in some location in central London then you're obviously going to have to pay a hefty fee for it (seemingly 8k in that case).

If you want some of the extra practical stuff then courses like this one from MIT are available free of charge:

https://missing.csail.mit.edu/

(and of course just further reading/self-learning)

The OP can already program in Java and C++ so I suspect a bootcamp which starts from assuming pretty much zero knowledge and teaches javascript and ruby is suboptimal for him.

It *might* be useful for a recent grad from perhaps a non-STEM degree who wants something that could quickly land them a job, I suspect there is a bit less flexibility though relative to some other options, I'm assuming this course is going to be front end/web dev type stuff? I've not seen a comprehensive syllabus?

Other options are available though from the cheaper online options for short courses like coursera, edx and udacity to MSc degrees - lots of computer science MSc degrees are "conversion" courses for non-CS/non-STEM types and available both full time or part-time. (in the case of STEM grads there are specialist MSc options available too).

An MSc at a good university (even a specialist MSc) would tend to offer far more potential opportunities than these sorts of bootcamps.

 

[MikeTimbers]

I'm not sure anyone is saying these things are a "scam" per se but just that they're expensive and there are better alternatives in many cases.

Scam.

Don't pay for stuff like this, it's pretty much a scam -

Sorry, @dowie do you want to rethink your comment?

 

[dowie]

Sorry, @dowie do you want to rethink your comment?

Not particularly, I don't think he's saying these sorts of courses literally are scams, he's echoing the same sentiments as most people have that they're perhaps rather expensive for what they are.

Maybe he can clarify - @swillsy do you think these bootcamps are literally scams? Or are you referring to them being overpriced or something along those limnes?

 

[swillsy]

If you're selling something for 000s which you can get easily off YouTube for free its pretty scammy - Like get rich quick schemes etc. No one is forced to take the courses but they aren't great value at all and normally promise over the top results!

 

[Calabi]

Yeah in my opinion a lot of these expensive course's can be scams especially if they start selling you more on what the course can get you, the aspirations and almost guarantees of jobs. I almost fell for one at one point but realised I was speaking to a salesperson with the way he was talking.

7000 for a javascript course is crazy to me. Like everyone has said you can learn for free. Part of being a programmer in my opinion is figuring out to how to learn how to figure out things for yourself(sometimes you google the answers but can't always). Learning is hard work, a course can make a bit easier but its you that still has to do the work. Just save your money and do the work.

 

[JamesH85]

I don't want to hijack the thread but I was after some advice as someone with no programming experience at all when it comes to c++, java etc.

After ready through this thread I looked through the link (freecodecamp.org)posted to the free courses and tried the very first HTML course for 20-30 minutes and quite enjoyed it.

I'm a CnC programmer and I could actually relate what I started doing in HTML to some of the code I write on CnC's.

I've quite often thought of changing careers and I think this could be something that I really enjoy.

Whats the best way to go about transitioning to be an actual programmer. I'm going to keep at all them free courses and try to do as much as I can on there. Looking for starter points really that I can whittle away at in free time(I have a lot of it). TiA.

 

[MrRockliffe]

Have you got a job right now? There are tonnes of companies that’ll take on people who want to code but don’t yet have the experience. You’ll just have to go in at entry level

 

[radderfire]

Whats the best way to go about transitioning to be an actual programmer. I'm going to keep at all them free courses and try to do as much as I can on there. Looking for starter points really that I can whittle away at in free time(I have a lot of it). TiA.

What is of primary importance is that whatever work you are going to do, it really motivates you, and you are going to enjoy doing it. So, first, work out what this is. At the same time, it probably helps to look at the job ads, to see if someone actually wants to pay you for this, and hopefully you can find something that matches. The job ads tell you what the market is demanding, so it really helps looking at them to focus your learning on something that you could eventually get paid for.

These learn to code links will help you in your quest!

 

[JamesH85]

Have you got a job right now? There are tonnes of companies that’ll take on people who want to code but don’t yet have the experience. You’ll just have to go in at entry level

Yeah I'm employed with a decent salary, wouldn't be looking to take that entry level step yet, I'll have a look around job adverts and try and identify something specific to focus on. Thanks.

 

[JamesH85]

What is of primary importance is that whatever work you are going to do, it really motivates you, and you are going to enjoy doing it. So, first, work out what this is. At the same time, it probably helps to look at the job ads, to see if someone actually wants to pay you for this, and hopefully you can find something that matches. The job ads tell you what the market is demanding, so it really helps looking at them to focus your learning on something that you could eventually get paid for.

These learn to code links will help you in your quest!

Thanks for the link and advice I'll have a good look this afternoon.

 

[MrRockliffe]

Yeah I'm employed with a decent salary, wouldn't be looking to take that entry level step yet, I'll have a look around job adverts and try and identify something specific to focus on. Thanks.

Will your company not fund some courses for you?

 

[JamesH85]

Will your company not fund some courses for you?

Sadly no. Especially not if I'd be leaving the company to pursue a different career.

 

[MrRockliffe]

Sadly no. Especially not if I'd be leaving the company to pursue a different career.

That’s a shame, are there not any coding jobs at your current company? They might be keen to keep you, and hence will sponsor any training you need for a career change


One difficulty you’ll have is that even if you do a training course or 5, you won’t have experience working in a developer environment - this may make it more difficult to find a suitable role

 

[JamesH85]

That’s a shame, are there not any coding jobs at your current company? They might be keen to keep you, and hence will sponsor any training you need for a career change


One difficulty you’ll have is that even if you do a training course or 5, you won’t have experience working in a developer environment - this may make it more difficult to find a suitable role

No sadly not, I work at a.manufacturing company programming CnC machines which is not software or web based. That's why I'm looking to traverse into a new career if possible, I've been doing this for 20 years and it honestly feels dead end. I'd like to try something new and expand. I'm sure I'd be looking at an entirely different job and most likely a lot less pay which I understand I'll have to accept to even get started. I did expect there will be a lot of obstacles in my way which I am hoping with time and hard work will be surpassable.

 

[MrRockliffe]

No sadly not, I work at a.manufacturing company programming CnC machines which is not software or web based. That's why I'm looking to traverse into a new career if possible, I've been doing this for 20 years and it honestly feels dead end. I'd like to try something new and expand. I'm sure I'd be looking at an entirely different job and most likely a lot less pay which I understand I'll have to accept to even get started. I did expect there will be a lot of obstacles in my way which I am hoping with time and hard work will be surpassable.

I don’t know what your salary situation is, but there are graduate level schemes which will pay £32k+ and give you all the training etc you need and will be happy to take you on with little/no coding experience.

If you could do that for 2 years, you’d then be in a much better position with 20 years of work experience and 2 years of coding - you might then be able to jump into a role paying 45k+