Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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ianh said:
Article 2 of the Geneva Conventions - https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/ihl/WebART/375-590006



30 seconds of research was all it took to find this.



Russian's, Russian's care. How did the UK population react when Saddam started showing images of RAF POW's in 1991? Did we care, did we react angrily to seeing "Our Boys" bloodied up and being made to say anti-West propaganda?

So now when Russia starts to claim that it's POW's are being "abused" by the Ukrainians who are breaking the GC, those videos of bleeding battered soldiers reading out propaganda messages gives Russia the potential excuse to treat captured Ukrainian POW's badly and say "well they started it" and now Russian citizens who may have be against the conflict will see "their" troops being used and hate it as much as we did in '91.

It's simply a stupid idea which only creates a negative outcome. I mean there is literally no difference here other than we hate it when the bad guys do it and we ignore it when the good guys do it -

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Russians care? What, that their soldiers are getting given tea and cake? Give over.

You’re on the wrong side of history here, being more concerned about some trivial part of the Geneva convention rather than being concerned about innocent civilians being murdered.

Russians will believe the propaganda or they won’t. If, and I’ve not seen any evidence of it, Ukraine’s are giving a few invaders a bloody nose and tweeting these pictures then it really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. For you to waste your time trying to criticise them for it is bizarre and just seems like you’re trying to distract people from the true, Russian orchestrated, war crimes happening.

Furthermore, Russia didn’t sign the GC. So, if they don’t agree to its values then why should those under siege by Russia? Play with fire…
 
Cyber-Mav said:
what new sanctions have been done to russia? the ruble to gbp is now 164.12 to £1. its tanked hard again.???
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Might be more to do with movement on GBP.

It's better to look at the dollar to ruble as that's what the Russians are trying to get their hands on. It's currently about 125, so high, but not tanked.
 
Nerusy said:
I've written like what 9 posts on the subject. What else can I say, I've already written everything.
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No, you keep saying you doubt the intent. You haven't said WHY you doubt it.

You said "i just cannot see any reason for the Russian military to specifically target civilians".

Well I can, to demoralize them, they're less likely to take up arms if they're struggling just to survive or busy caring for their injured.

So again, WHY do you doubt their intent?

Either they're intentionally targeting civilians or they're so inept that they're accidentally committing war crimes.
 
bainbridge said:
It must have been built in the Soviet era, therefore Russia will have detailed plans of the plant, and knowledge of how to operate it
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That's the same as saying the UK government will have detailed plans of the Chooz Nuclear Power Station in France and people competent to operate it, just because we were both in the EU when it was built :rolleyes:
 
muon said:
You are dismissing real circumstantial evidence with stories.
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I never dismissed it. pointed out that these videos do not have enough information to conclude what is happening with certainty. Hence I doubt the intent. Never did I completely say with certainty that it was not Russian forces shooting civilians. Honestly this is all bizarre.
 
bainbridge said:
I'm getting a bit weary of the rolling news now, and the western reaction to events. Take the latest nuclear power plant capture, for example:

Capture it and you control a significant proportion of the country's power supply. It's a prime strategic goal.

It must have been built in the Soviet era, therefore Russia will have detailed plans of the plant, and knowledge of how to operate it, and can hatch a plan to take it while trying to avoid a nuclear disaster.

The Russians captured it, and there was no nuclear disaster.

The western world goes beserk. How could Putin do such a thing? Of course they're going to try to take the site! They're invading the country.
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They were shelling the buildings. What if they damaged the control room or the cooling systems? Yeah the reactor is tough but the cooling systems are that tough? Nuclear reactors without a coolant feed tends to lead to very bad outcomes.
 
Nerusy said:
I never dismissed it. pointed out that these videos do not have enough information to conclude what is happening with certainty. Hence I doubt the intent. Never did I completely say with certainty that it was not Russian forces shooting civilians. Honestly this is all bizarre.
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I mean, the tooth fairy may exist because I don’t have enough evidence to say she certainly doesn’t. But, that’s absurd. But not as absurd as trying to suggest the Russians aren’t targeting civilians. Give your head a wobble.
 
Nerusy said:
I never dismissed it. pointed out that these videos do not have enough information to conclude what is happening with certainty. Hence I doubt the intent. Never did I completely say with certainty that it was not Russian forces shooting civilians. Honestly this is all bizarre.
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No you have clearly painted one story as the most likely as the more likely with zero evidence. Your only logic is that you cannot possibly fathom Russian soldiers on the ground targeting civilian infrastructure/buildings without there being valid military targets (evidence for which you have provided none of in the dozens of examples that exist).

The worst example I've seen is the family brutally gunned down with children in the car for no reason. Apparently they were trying to run over a Russian soldier is the excuse. Seems plausible to you and therefore nothing can be concluded.
 
Raikiri said:
No, you keep saying you doubt the intent. You haven't said WHY you doubt it.

You said "i just cannot see any reason for the Russian military to specifically target civilians".

Well I can, to demoralize them, they're less likely to take up arms if they're struggling just to survive or busy caring for their injured.

So again, WHY do you doubt their intent?

Either they're intentionally targeting civilians or they're so inept that they're accidentally committing war crimes.
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You have a view that they are targeting civilians to demoralise them. That's an understandable and reasonable view.

It is my view that this view is false. When Russia bombed Helsinki in winter war it completely enraged the populace and helped drive Fins to repel the Russian invasion.

I think that shelling civilians will increase Ukrainian resolve. I think that Russia has a long term goal to occupy Ukraine. I think that we could see in early days of the invasion that they tried to avoid civilians casualties as much as possible even to a point that would put their forces at higher risk. I can see that reason behind it as Russia wants amicable populace during the occupation. If they specifically start targeting civilians then they increase resistance under occupation, which would increase their personally losses.

So I think it is irrational for Russia to target civilians to demoralise them if they want to occupy the country.
 
Ahleckz said:
I mean, the tooth fairy may exist because I don’t have enough evidence to say she certainly doesn’t. But, that’s absurd. But not as absurd as trying to suggest the Russians aren’t targeting civilians. Give your head a wobble.
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One cannot prove a negative. One cannot prove tooth fairy does not exist. One needs to prove it exists. Indeed.
 
Nerusy said:
You have a view that they are targeting civilians to demoralise them. That's an understandable and reasonable view.

It is my view that this view is false. When Russia bombed Helsinki in winter war it completely enraged the populace and helped drive Fins to repel the Russian invasion.

I think that shelling civilians will increase Ukrainian resolve. I think that Russia has a long term goal to occupy Ukraine. I think that we could see in early days of the invasion that they tried to avoid civilians casualties as much as possible even to a point that would put their forces at higher risk. I can see that reason behind it as Russia wants amicable populace during the occupation. If they specifically start targeting civilians then they increase resistance under occupation, which would increase their personally losses.

So I think it is irrational for Russia to target civilians to demoralise them if they want to occupy the country.
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Why do you think they are targeting civilians then? Because they unquestionably are.
 
The Russians have changed strategy because they are facing bad resistance, they have no intent of keeping Ukraine intact anymore, they are planning on flattening it.
 
ubersonic said:
It's called confirmation bias, he's formed a belief and his mind is now seeking information that supports that belief and interpreting information that does not in a way that does, or flat out dismissing it.
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Not entirely correct as I do not think they are definitely not targeting civilians, as I wrote it may be a possibility (scare populace into submission) but I personally doubt it is the case here.
 
Firestar_3x said:
The Russians have changed strategy because they are facing bad resistance, they have no intent of keeping Ukraine intact anymore, they are planning on flattening it.
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I doubt it, it can be flattened with way less cost to there soldiers, vehicles then is happening now. And no not nukes.
 
You would need to be very naïve to think Russia wouldn't prioritise big infrastructure across Ukraine such as Nuclear Power Stations for control.
 
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