Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Does anyone else have any reservations about Zelensky? I read through the list of Russia’s demands and it would mean giving up the two regions to the east of Ukraine and for them to be neutral, shrink their army etc. Zelensky thinks he can win by being supplied by Nato countries but isn’t he going to be the ruler of a pile of rubble when fighting stops.
 
cyber69 said:
Does anyone else have any reservations about Zelensky? I read through the list of Russia’s demands and it would mean giving up the two regions to the east of Ukraine and for them to be neutral, shrink their army etc. Zelensky thinks he can win by being supplied by Nato countries but isn’t he going to be the ruler of a pile of rubble when fighting stops.
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I mean, it's been said this is costing Putin something like $20bn per day, the EU have frozen $650bn of Russia's central banks overseas funds. As of November last year it was said Russia had over $500bn in gold reserves, as of articles this week it's now $130bn.

If this is all true I'm not sure how long Putin can keep it up for. Even without an outright ban on russian oil etc, a lot of companies are refusing to offload boats filled with th stuff.
 
cyber69 said:
Does anyone else have any reservations about Zelensky? I read through the list of Russia’s demands and it would mean giving up the two regions to the east of Ukraine and for them to be neutral, shrink their army etc. Zelensky thinks he can win by being supplied by Nato countries but isn’t he going to be the ruler of a pile of rubble when fighting stops.
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Absolutely not, he's been one of the most inspirational leaders of this century so far. He dosnt come from a political or military background which makes it all the more impressive. As it stands he's simply standing up for the sovereignty of his nation, with the support of his people, with the support of the majority of the civilised world. He didnt ask for this. If he gives in to putins demands, he loses the integrity of his nation, a puppet government then drags the country in a direction it dosnt want. on top of that he's gone, minimum he gets locked up and disappeared if he cant escape in time.
 
cyber69 said:
Does anyone else have any reservations about Zelensky? I read through the list of Russia’s demands and it would mean giving up the two regions to the east of Ukraine and for them to be neutral, shrink their army etc. Zelensky thinks he can win by being supplied by Nato countries but isn’t he going to be the ruler of a pile of rubble when fighting stops.
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The demands would mean Ukraine is demilitarised. There would be nothing to stop Russia just rolling in whenever putin feels things aren't going his way so Ukraine would be a puppet state like Belarus. They might settle for that if things get a lot worse but at the moment they still have the fight in them.

I think being actor has helped him. Hes probably bricking it but can play the part to inspire others.
 
steve45 said:
Absolutely not, he's been one of the most inspirational leaders of this century so far. He dosnt come from a political or military background which makes it all the more impressive. As it stands he's simply standing up for the sovereignty of his nation, with the support of his people, with the support of the majority of the civilised world. He didnt ask for this. If he gives in to putins demands, he loses the integrity of his nation, a puppet government then drags the country in a direction it dosnt want. on top of that he's gone, minimum he gets locked up and disappeared if he cant escape in time.
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There are two things that I heard about that gave me pause - one is jailing his political opponent and the other is shutting down TV channels that ran counter to the governments ends. I don't know enough about the justifications for either but they're something that I have to look into further. On the other hand the man has a pair that can be seen from space. If he's not Time magazines man of the year then they're missing a trick.
 
cyber69 said:
Does anyone else have any reservations about Zelensky? I read through the list of Russia’s demands and it would mean giving up the two regions to the east of Ukraine and for them to be neutral, shrink their army etc. Zelensky thinks he can win by being supplied by Nato countries but isn’t he going to be the ruler of a pile of rubble when fighting stops.
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I don't think Zelensky has clean hands by any stretch of the imagination. Ukrainian politics is pretty corrupt, so I've no doubt he is up to his knees in dodgy stuff that's allowed him to accumulate substantial wealth. I don't know much about the way he's running the country, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's pulled a few swifties in that department as well (e.g. shutting down political opponents).

But he is not a tyrant, and his nation is the wronged party in this war. Not only that, but Saddam Hussein was a genuine tyrant who'd committed a large number of atrocities, yet we still only invaded him on the false pretext of WMD. Simply being a bad guy is not sufficient justification.
 
SteveOBHave said:
There are two things that I heard about that gave me pause - one is jailing his political opponent and the other is shutting down TV channels that ran counter to the governments ends. I don't know enough about the justifications for either but they're something that I have to look into further. On the other hand the man has a pair that can be seen from space. If he's not Time magazines man of the year then they're missing a trick.
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He shut down pro-Russian TV stations running propaganda.

Same with us not allowing RT to broadcast here.
 
Excuse my ignorance, I don't follow the news or social media.

Can someone explain the reason why Russia is attacking?

Is there a REAL reason or is it just power and land?
 
SteveOBHave said:
The question has to be asked - in a democratic country should you not be allowed to say what you like as long as you're not inciting violence?
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I'm all for freedom of speech but with freedom of speech comes some sense of responsibility.
I see nothing wrong with shutting down a foreign broadcaster actively trying to subvert sovereign nations. RT are a known source of disinformation and propaganda. When a broadcaster gives up integrity and is no longer genuine, its fair game.
 
cjgardens said:
Excuse my ignorance, I don't follow the news or social media.

Can someone explain the reason why Russia is attacking?

Is there a REAL reason or is it just power and land?
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I have heard no credible "real" reason. It appears that Putin wants to return to the power the USSR once held before it collapsed.

Sometimes bad people do bad things and this like one of those times.
 
Iraklis F.C. said:
aha thanks for your reply, i was puzzled because in the Gulf wars i dont remember seeing Abrams tanks being destroyed like that
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Any tank can get destroyed like that. It happens with a penetrating hit hitting the ammo rack and turning 20 shells into to one great big bang.

Blow out panels or not no one survives an ammo rack explosion.
 
steve45 said:
I'm all for freedom of speech but with freedom of speech comes some sense of responsibility.
I see nothing wrong with shutting down a foreign broadcaster actively trying to subvert sovereign nations. RT are a known source of disinformation and propaganda. When a broadcaster gives up integrity and is no longer genuine, its fair game.
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The problem is that there is never a truly objective arbiter of what is disinformation and what isn't.
 

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