Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Minusorange said:
His whole "thing" is making people scared of him, he's a bully and it's time we stood up to him, otherwise you're basically giving him free reign of the world to do as he pleases because nukes, scary boo....
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He does not have free reign of the world, it has been made crystal clear on numerous occasions what our red lines are, just as he has made clear what are his.

Rooms of people worldwide will be working on every nuance of this war, if they thought they could call his bluff they would have done.
 
Minusorange said:
His whole "thing" is making people scared of him, he's a bully and it's time we stood up to him, otherwise you're basically giving him free reign of the world to do as he pleases because nukes, scary boo....



Basically saying they're okay with bombs falling on Poland first before they get involved lol
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Chemical weapons should have been the red line for the US, after chemical weapons, to escalate is to enter the genocide territory, Biden said 'they will pay' yeah well done Biden.
 
dowie said:
Poland clearly not co confident in that and the US showing them a reason not to be too, in theory, it shouldn't matter whether they're delivered from Poland or from a US base in Germany unless the US is going to react differently and not treat a potential attack on Poland in the same way it would treat one vs its own airbase.
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Yes, that was pretty craven if the USA really was happy for Poland to do it on its own. If a NATO member state provokes a war with a third-party country then they are not covered by the Article 5 guarantee and will not receive automatic military support from the other NATO members if attacked by that country, so Poland cannot be blamed for being careful.

What is very worrying is what could happen if Trump wins the next US general election. He would probably refuse to honour the Article 5 guarantee if Russia attacked the Baltic states or Romania etc. He is so thick he would probably say that publicly too. Money and his own popularity is all he cares about.
 
Firestar_3x said:
it has been made crystal clear on numerous occasions what our red lines are
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Except it hasn't as made evident by the Mig fiasco, it should make zero difference whether Poland or US give the Mig's, they're both NATO, an attack on one is an attack on all, yet nobody is courageous enough to put that to the test and offer the Mig's it makes you wonder just how concrete that treaty really is, if both sides are doing a "no you do it"
 
You can appreciate why Poland wouldn't want to give Ukraine the jets directly. Let's face it nato or not, the one country Russia won't mess with is the United States.

Anyway Rocky IV was on tonight, maybe Putin was watching and will have a change of heart.
 
steve_c said:
I'm not much of a fan but I think Biden has made the correct call.
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Maybe he has (for the moment) but he perhaps should have kept quiet about it (ditto to his SC nomination requirements), a bit more uncertainty for Putin/Russia re: will NATO intervene might be better to keep them in check, now they're confident that they won't have a no-fly zone for the moment (I guess a chemical attack could change that).
 
Entai said:
Crew of Enola Gay were murderers, not people who indirectly saved millions of lives?
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Bad example.

They were mass murderers who didn't save anyone. An invasion of Japan was never on the table because they had already been militarily defeated and a naval blockade was in place, Japan was considered no threat to anyone by the allies. The top generals and admirals including Dwight Eisenhower the supreme commander of the allied forces had said a nuclear weapon was completely unnecessary, president Truman just wanted to use a nuke for political power.

The propaganda narrative is that a nuke was used to avoid a land invasion of Japan, but that is just nonsense I'm afraid.
 
Energize said:
Bad example.

They were mass murderers who didn't save anyone. An invasion of Japan was never on the table because they had already been militarily defeated and a naval blockade was in place, Japan was considered no threat to anyone by the allies. The top generals and admirals including Dwight Eisenhower the supreme commander of the allied forces had said a nuclear weapon was completely unnecessary, president Truman just wanted to use a nuke for political power.

The propaganda narrative is that a nuke was used to avoid a land invasion of Japan, but that is just nonsense I'm afraid.
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^^ This. All of this. The Americans knew Japan was beaten. There was no need to invade. The entire island was besieged. Japan had already offered her surrender through the Soviets, and although America had not been made aware of this, she knew Japan was ready to offer terms.

They dropped those bombs because they wanted to, not because they needed to. 'We saved lives' was a later rationalisation concocted for propaganda purposes.

Meanwhile, Russia is blatantly copying the Iraq invasion WMD playbook to justify her invasion of Ukraine, and ironically the same conspiracy theorists who use the war on Iraq as an example of government corruption are enthusiastically swallowing Russia's nonsensical claims about Ukraine's biolabs.

The United Nations has said it found no evidence Ukraine had a biological weapons program, while Washington and its allies accused Russia of spreading "disinformation" as a possible prelude to launching its own biological or chemical attacks.

Key points:

* Member countries used the session to accuse Russia of deliberately targeting civilians

* Russia's envoy said Ukraine has at least 30 biological laboratories carrying out "very dangerous biological experiments"

* Ukraine does have a network of biological labs working to reduce the likelihood of deadly outbreaks

Russia called the meeting of the 15-member UN Security Council to reassert through its envoy Vassily Nebenzia that Ukraine ran biological weapons laboratories with US Defence Department support.

No evidence was provided.

Member countries called the claim "a lie" and "utter nonsense" and used the session to accuse Russia of deliberately targeting and killing hundreds of civilians in Ukraine, assertions that Russia denies in a 15-day offensive it calls "a special military operation".

Izumi Nakamitsu, the UN High Representative for Disarmament Affairs, told the council the United Nations was "not aware" of any biological weapons program in Ukraine, which had joined an international ban on such arms — as has Russia and the United States, along with 180 other countries.
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(Source).
 
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It seems entirely sensible to have biological weapons research programs all over the place in foreign countries right on the border of a politically sensitive country and potential enemy, all whilst going to great effort over the last almost 80 years to hide and contain any secret with regards to military technical development within their own borders and particularly within one area.
 
Zuban said:
It seems entirely sensible to have biological weapons research programs all over the place in foreign countries right on the border of a politically sensitive country and potential enemy, all whilst going to great effort over the last almost 80 years to hide and contain any secret with regards to military technical development within their own borders and particularly within one area.
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It does, but Ukraine is not one of those countries.
 
*A Russian law giving Moscow stronger powers to crack down on independent journalism is placing Russia under a "total information blackout" on the war in Ukraine, U.N. independent experts said on Friday.
https://twitter.com/phildstewart/status/1502470964419907591

*US hedge funds told to freeze Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich’s assets following sanctions by the U.K. government on March 10. — WSJ
'The instructions likely thwart the oligarch’s recent efforts to sell his interests in a series of hedge funds.'
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/abramovichs-us-hedge-fund-investments-frozen-wsj-2022-03-12/
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1502475238726152192
 
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Zuban said:
It seems entirely sensible to have biological weapons research programs all over the place in foreign countries right on the border of a politically sensitive country and potential enemy, all whilst going to great effort over the last almost 80 years to hide and contain any secret with regards to military technical development within their own borders and particularly within one area.
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Well comrade, you won't be quite so cocky when a Ukranian refugee gives you the new Space AIDS, or you catch Bloaty Head from the impending flying molefish infestation. I bet Joe Biden won't admit to being behind those either!
 
keyser van someone said:
America doesn't want to start WW3, good call I say.
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This.
Also, nothing bstops the UK offering to buy the Poish migs and hand deliver them to Ukraine. The UK wont fpr the exact same reasons the US wont, Poland wont, France wont.

Putin made it clear that delivery of fighter jets would amount to escalation and bo one wants to risk WW3.


Really, NATO should either commit tp a proper support and send in troups, take out russian artillery inside Russina border snd go go the whole hog, risking WW3 but defending freedom, or they carry on with the current sanctions and light military gear.
 
Firestar_3x said:
He does not have free reign of the world, it has been made crystal clear on numerous occasions what our red lines are, just as he has made clear what are his.
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Red lines have a habit of disappearing when it comes to Russia. Obama told the Russian's the west would get involved if they used chemical weapons in Syria, well sarin gas was dropped on civilians in Ghouta in August 2013. Blame was squarely put at Putin's door but after Obama refused to go after Russian military targets that gave the Russians a green light to use any weapon they liked to prop up Assad.

That's why I'm skeptical as to Joe Biden's announcement that "Russia will pay a heavy price" if they use chemical weapons. I mean they've already said NATO won't be sending troops and won't impose a no fly zone so what else can they realistically do?
 
A dangerous tactic but calling Putin's bluff should be on the cards.

'Retreat from Ukraine or face coordinated military action from the rest of the world. Starting with the defence of Ukraine.'
 
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