Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Colonel_Klinck said:
So apparently Ukraine wasn't a thing until 1989 and it was created by Russia :rolleyes: Are they really this thick or is lying to their base got some other end game?
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This is one of those "it's correct from a certain point of view" things, but even if somebody takes the view it's correct the fact the country is technically younger than most forum posters in no way legitimises Putin's decision to try and reconquer it 30+ years after the fact. People walking the "oh it used to be part of Russia until the 90's, they're just taking it back" line have some serous reasoning deficiencies.

But to address their stance, essentially Ukraine was a region of Russia that during the USSR era was promoted to the status of an independent state/member of the USSR (albeit still completely ruled/owned by Moscow) and then became an independent sovereign country with the disintegration of the USSR (the same thing happening to Belarus and Georgia). As stated though the fact it belonged to Russia for 100+ years prior to 1992 doesn't change the fact it's been it's own country for 30+ years and any claim they had to it disappeared when 92% of Ukrainians voted to become an independent country.
 
In a surprise to no one looks like these talks are just Russia buying time to reorganise - reports are a general mobilisation of more experienced, better equipped, groups such as the 4th Guards towards Ukraine - hard to get a good feel for the scale of it but looks like at least 1-2 BTGs worth from the 4th Guards.
 
The earlier Ukraine comes to some sort of agreement with Russia the better, as the longer this goes on the worse negotiating position Ukraine will be in as they will have lost more ground.

So unless some help can be given that changes the direction of the war this prolonged battle could end up meaning more compromises Ukraine must make.

This is assuming Russia can keep this pressure up, obviously I don't have the intel which Zelensky is privy to so maybe he knows something is coming and holding out for that.


I know some of the guys here disagree with the way I see things but I don't use Twitter so don't have access to the latest info, which works both ways as it isn't always true.
 
Problem is all Russia seems really interested in is complete capitulation - current talks appear to be an attempt to lead Ukraine up the garden path while Russia reorganises their forces.
 
But there is no cease fire while the talks go on so if they did not happen what would change.

From what I read it was Ukraine that kept wanting the peace talks and Russia was more reluctant.
Russia will have set out their demands so unless Ukraine start compromising then these talks bare little fruit(Russia's view).
 
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Colonel_Klinck said:
So apparently Ukraine wasn't a thing until 1989 and it was created by Russia :rolleyes: Are they really this thick or is lying to their base got some other end game?

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The irony is that Ukraine was a sophisticated cultural nexus while Russia was still a medieval backwater.

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Today Russia is still a medieval backwater, but with electricity.
 
ubersonic said:
This is one of those "it's correct from a certain point of view" things, but even if somebody takes the view it's correct the fact the country is technically younger than most forum posters in no way legitimises Putin's decision to try and reconquer it 30+ years after the fact. People walking the "oh it used to be part of Russia until the 90's, they're just taking it back" line have some serous reasoning deficiencies.

But to address their stance, essentially Ukraine was a region of Russia that during the USSR era was promoted to the status of an independent state/member of the USSR (albeit still completely ruled/owned by Moscow) and then became an independent sovereign country with the disintegration of the USSR (the same thing happening to Belarus and Georgia). As stated though the fact it belonged to Russia for 100+ years prior to 1992 doesn't change the fact it's been it's own country for 30+ years and any claim they had to it disappeared when 92% of Ukrainians voted to become an independent country.
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Ukraine became a republic in 1917. Lots of countries were absorbed by the USSR, doesn't mean they stopped being countries, certainly not for the people living in them. She is once again talking out of her ****.
 
ianh said:
We had this general discussion many, many pages back and the general consensus was, to paraphrase poorly TBF - "Russians don't deserve to be treated like humans" - which I strongly disagreed with but the public mood is "All Russians Evil, Kill all Russians" and if you disagree or have an actual thinking brain you're labelled a pro-Putin apologist by people who have zero understanding what real war is like because actual logical thinking is currently complete hidden behind waves of more and more outrage.
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People have often used China as an example where the government prohibits real free speech, so if you don't sound very patriotic then you face the consequences.

Where as here in the West we have always had pride in our free speech, I guess we can still say what we want within reason but what we want to say is influenced by the information we are given.

When all information is blocked from the opposing side and all we are given is propoganda I guess this is what we get, hate for those who we see as the enemy even though they are just normal people like us.

They don't need to control our speech if they control our thoughts.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
Ukraine became a republic in 1917. Lots of countries were absorbed by the USSR, doesn't mean they stopped being countries, certainly not for the people living in them. She is once again talking out of her ****.
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Reminds me of a finish girl I met in a bar in Faro. We were talking about the UK and she tried to tell me that Scotland wasn't a country, because she studied there and obviously knew better. Funny thing was the girl behind the bar was Scottish.
 
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