Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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chaparral said:
Why was Ukraine not allowed to join Nato

As surely this war would not of happened in the first place if they were allowed to of joined Nato..
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Up until Zelenskyy was voted in, Ukraine was largely under the Russian thumb. Allowing Ukraine to buy NATO kit would have meant the stuff going straight to Russia so they could analyse the tech and work out its strengths and weaknesses. Zelenskyy was also a complete newbie to politics, so the prudent thing to do was to see if he really managed to change Ukraine and turn it into a western aligned democracy. There was no guarantee that come the next elections another Russian puppet wouldn't gain power.

EDIT: fix typo
 
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peterwalkley said:
Up until Zelenskyy was voted in, Ukraine was largely under the Russian thumb. Allowing Ukraine to buy NATO kit would have meant the stuff going straight to Russia so they could analyse the tech and work out its strengths and weaknesses. Zelenskyy was also a complete newbie to politics, so the prudent thing to do was to see if he really managed to change Ukraine and turn into into a western aligned democracy. There was no guarantee that come the next elections another Russian puppet wouldn't gain power.
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Thanks for this reply.
 
iamtheoneneo said:
I expect that if Poland do start sending 'peacekeeping' troops to Ukraine like they are planning then it may pave the way for other countries to do the same.

I think the more Russia push west the more nervous other countries are going to start getting and will almost have to commit to stopping the push well before it hits their borders.

You don't get 3 leaders on a train to Ukraine to talk about just sending more equipment.
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Any country that (overtly) sends troops risks rapid escalation. The last few days have shown Russia is now targeting supply routes and western areas of ukraine, and that is a clear sign of intent.
 
*Kyiv Region Police Say Seven Civilians Were Killed by Mortar Shell Strike in Makariv Town on Friday
https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-p...rtar-attack-near-ukrainian-capital-police-say

'Cooperation between Russia and China will only become stronger in the current circumstances, the Interfax news agency quoted Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as saying on Saturday.' - RTRS
https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-p...-will-only-get-stronger-interfax-cites-lavrov ~waiting for Reuters article

'China inked new rules on the supervision of military equipment purchase contracts on Saturday, the official Xinhua news agency said.' - RTRS
https://www.reuters.com/world/china...tary-equipment-purchase-contracts-2022-03-19/
 
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chaparral said:
Why was Ukraine not allowed to join Nato
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Additional to what @peterwalkley said: Russia has been militarily involved in Ukraine since 2014, both in annexed Crimea and in the "civil war" in the East. Ukraine joining NATO would immediately have put NATO into military conflict with Russia and no-one wanted that. Finally, NATO is a mutual agreement, the existing NATOs look to gain some kind of strategic benefit from new members and Ukraine wasn't really offering much in return. It was essential a liability.
 
peterwalkley said:
Up until Zelenskyy was voted in, Ukraine was largely under the Russian thumb. Allowing Ukraine to buy NATO kit would have meant the stuff going straight to Russia so they could analyse the tech and work out its strengths and weaknesses. Zelenskyy was also a complete newbie to politics, so the prudent thing to do was to see if he really managed to change Ukraine and turn it into a western aligned democracy. There was no guarantee that come the next elections another Russian puppet wouldn't gain power.

EDIT: fix typo
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I wish this forum had a 'like' button.
 
alchal said:
But I guess at least we aren't ourselves actually paying directly to the Putin meat grinder.
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True, but that's a rather worthless benefit. Ideally you want sanctions to inflict minimal pain on your country and maximum pain on the country you are sanctioning. Sanctions that inflict pain on your country but actually end up benefiting the country you are sanctioning are about the worst idea possible.
 
Sankari said:
No, and in any case the majority of them support Putin.
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Not really, they elect him because they have no alternative (by his design). In all his years of rule the only time he ever got more than half of them to vote for him was in 2018 (52%) at the height of the alleged threats from Trump/NATO/ETC.
 
chaparral said:
Why was Ukraine not allowed to join Nato
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They were, NATO agreed to their ascension in 2008 (as a result of the Russian invasion of Georgia to prevent them joining) and they started making preparations/progress, however in 2010 they elected a new president (Viktor Yanukovych) who promised to strengthen ties with the EU and Russia thus negating any need for NATO membership so it was then aborted. Of course Yanukovych turned out to be a corrupt Russian puppet who refused to ratify Ukraine's association deal with the EU in favour of joining a union with Russia/Belarus/Kazakhstan, resulting in the 2014 rebellion and his impeachment.
 
Mr Jack said:
Additional to what @peterwalkley said: Russia has been militarily involved in Ukraine since 2014, both in annexed Crimea and in the "civil war" in the East. Ukraine joining NATO would immediately have put NATO into military conflict with Russia and no-one wanted that. Finally, NATO is a mutual agreement, the existing NATOs look to gain some kind of strategic benefit from new members and Ukraine wasn't really offering much in return. It was essential a liability.
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Precisely, her joining would be a militarily and politically dangerously hot potato, that they can well do without.
 
Ukrain needs a very specialist pice of equipment to counter these artillery strikes.

it a counter batterry radar system that can pinpoint where they are fired from to the exact location, so far the USA has refused to supply it.

With this in place they can use the drones to take out the arty quickly. The Americans know this so i wonder if they think ts a step to far but if they had this it could help take their arty out the game.
 
bris said:
The Americans know this so i wonder if they think ts a step to far but if they had this it could help take their arty out the game.
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I think there's a calculated risk about how much of their tech they want to risk falling into Russian hands. We have to presume (though not hope) that everything sent will be captured and analysed. It seems a safe bet at the moment that Russian kit is capable in the right hands, but not necessarily as advanced as what might be deployed to help Ukraine.

This war is one horribly hard decision after another. The only good thing is that it's shaken us out of our "capitalism will solve everything" rut.
 
Puzzled said:
Saw this was tweeted yesterday but picked up by BBC now

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60804949

Seems a tricky thing to hide, must have been supported by Roscosmos
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The moment was live-streamed by both Nasa, the American space agency, and the Russian agency Roscosmos.
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Gif of Putin watching it being streamed live on Russian TV :D

flphDgP.gif
 
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