Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Belarussian diplomats have left Ukraine, this is a sign that belarussian troops might join the fight anytime soon. Also sea mines have drifted south of the black sea because of strong winds, sailing has become dangerous on the west coast of the Black sea. A proper mess
 
arknor said:
you do if they don't travel in a perfectly straight line though.
aren't most missiles these days meant to adjust their course on the fly

Cram probably works but I'm assuming it's range only covers small areas
seems something still got through though unless the second part of the video is fake
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As long as you can get out ahead of them, you don't need anything particularly fast to intercept them - that is the caveat though - which means if you have an advanced anti-air defence at the target of the missile you have a good chance, if you are trying to intercept them from a perimeter defence not so easy.

Regarding another poster's point if you have an advanced enough kill vehicle it doesn't really matter if they attempt to manoeuvre or change speed - they can't do crazy manoeuvres at the headline hypersonic speeds anyhow. Additionally they don't do hypersonic speeds through the whole path - in fact they can be slower than a conventional missile even in the terminal phase depending on how they are used/which missile.

Potentially you can shoot one down with Phalanx CIWS/CRAM type weapons - but they may be used in a high angle attack which would make that difficult.

The real advantage of hypersonics is that if you fire a lot of them they can take various paths around the globe, without the predictable trajectory of conventional ICBMs, minimising the reaction time and making it very difficult to know the specific target of any one missile so in most cases they will have reached the target too quickly for countermeasures.
 
alchal said:
You do know an ICBM goes into space....and travels at a higher.speed than a hypersonic missile...

What next it can flip 360 and shoot lasers?
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I think they only travel faster than hypersonic when they are on their way down, not on the way up. Just guessing though.
 
Iraklis F.C. said:
Belarussian diplomats have left Ukraine, this is a sign that belarussian troops might join the fight anytime soon. Also sea mines have drifted south of the black sea because of strong winds, sailing has become dangerous on the west coast of the Black sea. A proper mess
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Yeah, there was footage of their Ambassador being thrown a bag containing "30 pieces of silver" by a member of the Ukrainian border force before he was allowed to cross.
 
alchal said:
You do know an ICBM goes into space....and travels at a higher.speed than a hypersonic missile...

What next it can flip 360 and shoot lasers?
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ICBMs waste a lot of time and energy completing high ballistic arcs they go way higher than a low orbit but with a lot less lateral speed.

I think a large advantage of the engine drivern hypersonics is they can get to these speeds without having to go so high and so exposing themselves less to early detection.
 
dowie said:
Eh? They go into space!!!!
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This helps show the difference (Fractional orbital bombardment is technically illegal due to conventions on space weaopons)

A radar at the target will be able to see an ICBM around the planets curve long before a lower altitude hypersonic
 
alchal said:
Possibly I'm not actually sure how fast the initial booster stage actually is but it can't be too slow.
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According to Wiki they boost up to Mach 12, generally between 6 and 12 depending on missile, then slow down over the main part of the trajectory as they arc before speeding up again into the terminal stage. Depending on type and how they are used the terminal stage they can accelerate up to twice their boost speed but normally similar to their boost speed or even slower depending on the manoeuvrability involved.
 
Don't think the Europeans were threatening us with V2 type terror weapons though were they Boris ?
- other than that Brexit and Ukraines situation very similar.
 
It's apparent at this point that we're dealing with the worst kind of narcissist personality in Putin. This guy is the kitchen sink of everything that is bad with that disorder. It's for this reason we should be concerned.

Unless we can find a way of making the guy thinking he's won without actually winning anything then this has the potential to escalate out of control as he feeds his compulsive obsession to win at all costs.
 
Hypersonic also means a bow-wave/shockwave. So if you have a video without a shockwave visually and a sonic boom then it's basically baloney/CGI.
 
Theres a lot of talk about missiles but it seems to be ground artillery that is mainly being used by the Russians, thought I read a week or so ago that the Ukranians were being supplied with tech that could track where the shells were being fired from and retaliate directly
 
kitch9 said:
It's apparent at this point that we're dealing with the worst kind of narcissist personality in Putin. This guy is the kitchen sink of everything that is bad with that disorder. It's for this reason we should be concerned.

Unless we can find a way of making the guy thinking he's won without actually winning anything then this has the potential to escalate out of control as he feeds his compulsive obsession to win at all costs.
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So he wants - he wins?

1. What is his definition of win.
2. Change what he wants as a win.
3. Change his support structure required to win (For example China).
4. Change if he can afford to win.

If he simply wanted to save face, and he had unquestionable authority - then he would simply stop. Say he has won and liberated the Russians from the Neo-nazis, drew a border and decided for the country that is enough for today.

The reason he can't simply stop is twofold in my view:
1. He doesn't want to - because he's used to the appearance of total power, so this is an aberration in his reality.
2. He only holds power by keeping some other senior figures happy. He can shoot them if they fail, but if he fails, it is just apparent, it breeds discontent that shooting people won't solve (don't stop him trying - we've not seen that just yet).

My feeling is he's doing what he has set out todo (losses of people are irrelevant). Only when he fails to have enough enforcement of borders and internally will he stop sending troops and start escalating hardware.

What putin hasn't twigged yet ... Russia is being a proxy puppet state for China in the new era of China-US proxy wars.
 
NickK said:
So he wants - he wins?

1. What is his definition of win.
2. Change what he wants as a win.
3. Change his support structure required to win (For example China).
4. Change if he can afford to win.

If he simply wanted to save face, and he had unquestionable authority - then he would simply stop. Say he has won and liberated the Russians from the Neo-nazis, drew a border and decided for the country that is enough for today.

The reason he can't simply stop is twofold in my view:
1. He doesn't want to - because he's used to the appearance of total power, so this is an aberration in his reality.
2. He only holds power by keeping some other senior figures happy. He can shoot them if they fail, but if he fails, it is just apparent, it breeds discontent that shooting people won't solve (don't stop him trying - we've not seen that just yet).

My feeling is he's doing what he has set out todo (losses of people are irrelevant). Only when he fails to have enough enforcement of borders and internally will he stop sending troops and start escalating hardware.

What putin hasn't twigged yet ... Russia is being a proxy puppet state for China in the new era of China-US proxy wars.
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In the mind of a malignant narcissist unfortunately yes.

They can't accept the common sense or reason that you suggest.
 
Is this circulatory argument about the definition of winning the product of a UK education system that shuns the concept of winners and losers for that of mere "participants"? Meaning the importance of winning is blighted by many?

I find it ridiculous that discussion of how we or the Ukrainians could make Mr Putin *think* he's done enough to have said to have won has gained traction, just how stupid do people imagine he and his military are?

In one poster's opinion on here we are talking of Ukraine fighting "Slavic peasants" <lol>. Peasants with nuclear weapons and ICBM's, they are a new type of peasant to me... I think the concept of the importance of winning is still held strong in many countries, even if it's been castrated by certain elements in the UK. To not realise that is a fundamentally bad and naieve mistake.
 
There's no definition of a win here beyond the most pyrrhic of military victories because in terms of genuine prosperity Russia has no prospect as anything other than being a vassal of China who did in fact put some effort into investing in human capital.
 
Just seen this on my facebook

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