Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Hook said:
Why are there still no German heavy weapons in Ukraine?
Scholz keeps delaying them.

Olaf Scholz and Ukraine. der Spiegel
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Because Russia has a economic knife to Germany's throat. Germany starts sending modern heavy artillery systems to Russia's enemies then Russia cuts the cheap gas. Of course that will hurt Russia as well so it comes down to who will blink first and it seems as if Germany has.
 
Amnesia said:
You repeatedly claim I'm posting Russian propaganda yet fail to show which part of my post is Russian propaganda.
Now you are also not aware of people posting these far fetched twitter posts as serious ? so when its a caught out lie its a joke and if its the truth then its news ? then you claim its only the Russians coming out with rubbish.
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I wouldn't normally give folks like you any attention but I am curious. Do you think Russia is a democracy and the people living their have genuine freedom of speech and access to a free press?
 
Amnesia said:
Azov fighters did use human shields

Also Ukrainian civilians have been forced to fight, they didn't go pick a fight with Russia, they were invaded and are forced to defend their country.
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I know Russia claims this but is there evidence*? Maybe there's something from back in 2014 when they were a far right militia? I can't find anything but obviously pro-Russia sources claiming it, which is normally just an attempt to justify the killing of civilians. The biggest problem with Russia in this conflict (and in general) is that they have absolutely zero credibility - It's impossible to believe anything they claim due to their constant lies and twisting of reality.

*Note that civilians sheltering in underground bunkers used by military because they can't safely leave their city due to Russia bombing the **** out of it is not being used as human shields.

The tone of your other posts led me to believe that you meant the below quote to indicate the Ukrainian government was forcing it's civilians to fight against their will, rather than what you just said. Apologies if I was mistaken.

Amnesia said:
These are just civilians who are forced to defend, they were not given a choice and I'm sure plenty would rather not be fighting Americas proxy war.
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Freddie1980 said:
I wouldn't normally give folks like you any attention but I am curious. Do you think Russia is a democracy and the people living their have genuine freedom of speech and access to a free press?
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These guys are the kind that need black and white. I am speaking for him, but I expect he'll quote the opinion polls that were held there that found support for Russia is like 100:1
 
Correct..... Ukraine was a hot bed of Nazism and it was major threat to the stability of the mighty Russian empire and the rest of the world.

Oh wait, the cuckoo has just left the nest and is circling around the Kremlin with it magical mystical powers.
 
dLockers said:
These guys are the kind that need black and white. I am speaking for him, but I expect he'll quote the opinion polls that were held there that found support for Russia is like 100:1
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I often wonder why they stop at 100. Surely approval ratings of 150% are better!

The Crimean "referndum" must have had every one who identified as Russian voting as told, plus most of those identified as Ukranian (hard to believe), plus sizable of those identifiying as Tartar. - since I cannot see anyone of Tartar origin wanting to have anything to do with Russia this is almost impossible to believe.
andybird123 said:
Yeah, everyone has been saying they are for the seperatists to hold territory, not front line, but now they are showing up destroyed near front lines
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Maybe for their conscripted cannon fodder troops?

Wonder what the honest opinion of those of fighting age in the separatists territories is of these so-called "people's republics"? Not only are they being used as expendable, but even before the war I have to wonder how much support the separatist leadership actually had?

Not that anyone wants to argue with a warlord.
 
KompuKare said:
I often wonder why they stop at 100. Surely approval ratings of 150% are better!

The Crimean "referndum" must have had every one who identified as Russian voting as told, plus most of those identified as Ukranian (hard to believe), plus sizable of those identifiying as Tartar. - since I cannot see anyone of Tartar origin wanting to have anything to do with Russia this is almost impossible to believe.

Maybe for their conscripted cannon fodder troops?

Wonder what the honest opinion of those of fighting age in the separatists territories is of these so-called "people's republics"? Not only are they being used as expendable, but even before the war I have to wonder how much support the separatist leadership actually had?

Not that anyone wants to argue with a warlord.
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Was a post on twitter that showed an internal communication regarding the separatists being angry with how incompetent the Russian military has been and how they have been using them as cannon fodder, however they are happy to do so as long as Russia makes gains, which they are not, so are unhappy about it.

Idiots.
 
Freddie1980 said:
I wouldn't normally give folks like you any attention but I am curious. Do you think Russia is a democracy and the people living their have genuine freedom of speech and access to a free press?
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i don't really care if they are or not or what they have, it would be good if they did have more freedom but watching the videos of people getting arrested just for opposing the war tells me I wouldn't fit in since I'm fairly anti-war.

My issue is with the spin our own media puts on things, reminiscent of the Iraq war. Yes circumstances are different now and Ukrainian people clearly need our help but I don't agree with this propaganda war and the lies we get fed.

I'm not sure how far back these forums go but if you did search you would see the same pattern as it is now, a few of us arguing against the (Iraq)war and the rest doing the same thing as they are doing now, lies and insults.

It was pretty common for forum members here to ask all muslims(across the world) to apologize for any terrorist attack that happened, now they openly hate on ordinary Russian civilians as if they could stop Putin.
We couldn't stop Tony Blair how can they stop Putin.
 
I haven't seen or got the impression that forum members hate Russian civilians. They refer to Russian/Russia and are implying the armed forces and the tyrannical government. Of course, if there are people that are openly supporting murder and rape of ukr civilians, then they will be despised.
 
Oof. Sending those T-62’s into the frontline in the face of an opponent armed with the likes of Javelin, NLAW, and AT-4’s, plus tanks that are a generation or more ahead of the of T62 is akin to throwing baby Barn Owls into a running industrial fan.
 
Scougar said:
I haven't seen or got the impression that forum members hate Russian civilians. They refer to Russian/Russia and are implying the armed forces and the tyrannical government. Of course, if there are people that are openly supporting murder and rape of ukr civilians, then they will be despised.
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You have either missed the posts or they didn't stand out to you when you read them.
 
Amnesia said:
i don't really care if they are or not or what they have, it would be good if they did have more freedom but watching the videos of people getting arrested just for opposing the war tells me I wouldn't fit in since I'm fairly anti-war.

My issue is with the spin our own media puts on things, reminiscent of the Iraq war. Yes circumstances are different now and Ukrainian people clearly need our help but I don't agree with this propaganda war and the lies we get fed.

I'm not sure how far back these forums go but if you did search you would see the same pattern as it is now, a few of us arguing against the (Iraq)war and the rest doing the same thing as they are doing now, lies and insults.

It was pretty common for forum members here to ask all muslims(across the world) to apologize for any terrorist attack that happened, now they openly hate on ordinary Russian civilians as if they could stop Putin.
We couldn't stop Tony Blair how can they stop Putin.
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I too was antiwar with Iraq vs Bush and Blair. It was the wrong target at the time with no proven links to external terrorism whereas Afghanistan...

With Putin who is a monster and demonstrative a danger to humanity I am in favour of assisting his demise with both sanctions and active support of his opponent / targets.
 
alchal said:
Was a post on twitter that showed an internal communication regarding the separatists being angry with how incompetent the Russian military has been and how they have been using them as cannon fodder, however they are happy to do so as long as Russia makes gains, which they are not, so are unhappy about it.

Idiots.
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Yes, I think I saw that.

However, that's the leadership; the wannabe little strongman for the new region once the area gets annexed in a scam referendum and they get to play the local warlord.

I was more thinking about the more ordinary constripts from those areas. For argument's sake let's say the separatists had about 20%-30% in 2014 and years of being fed Russian TV has now pushed this to 40% (all figures made up!), what is the honest opinion of those constripted from the 60% or so of the population in those regions who don't actually support the separatists?

Especially since they are being asked to attack people just down the road from them?

The lessions of big empires (the Romans, Mongols, the various European imperial powers, etc.) is that you use the newly counquered people to fight elsewhere as it makes massacres easier.
 
Hook said:
Why are there still no German heavy weapons in Ukraine?
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Weapons and heavy weapons are not the same thing. I wish Germany would be more rapid and active in sending heavy weapons (and that the Swiss weren't blocking stuff, and that the French would step up more, etc.) but it's just not true that Germany haven't sent any weapons, millions of rounds of ammunition, rifles, anti-tank weapons, grenades, etc. have all been sent, along with ammunition for the howitzers sent by Holland. Germany did follow decades of established policy in rejecting initial transfer requests, but that was swiftly reversed within days of the war starting, as were rules preventing Germany sending direct military aid.

Like many of Western Europe's leaders, Scholz is clear that his top priority is preventing an escalation into a war between NATO and Russia, well ahead of ensuring that Ukraine wins. That doesn't mean that Germany is doing nothing.

This is the most up to date chart of military aid I can find:

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A breakdown of some of the German deliveries is on Wikipedia
 
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The Funktopus said:
Oof. Sending those T-62’s into the frontline in the face of an opponent armed with the likes of Javelin, NLAW, and AT-4’s, plus tanks that are a generation or more ahead of the of T62 is akin to throwing baby Barn Owls into a running industrial fan.
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I expect every military and every defence contractor around the world is going to be very interested in how long they survive.
 
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