When are you going fully electric?

Simon · 5 Jul 2022 at 08:47

dLockers said:
Normally tow limits are due to weight as well. Puny brakes + very heavy cars + heavy trailer?

Apparently Rivian solves this by putting the electric motors in reverse when towing to help slow the car down.

That’s what regen is. All EVs do that

And yes most OEMs haven’t bother with the homologation testing to get a EV to tow bigger weights. They are already heavy cars. Even the Cupra born with a 77kWh had to drop a rear seat to avoid the car being too heavy on initial versions.

Jonnycoupe · 5 Jul 2022 at 08:49

There are some envelope cases aswell. Ie a full battery starting a trip at high elevation has real issues coming down the hill with no where for the battery to go hence need massive brakes for that use case that some simple wont fit as it’s an extreme case.

So you end up with towing rating all over the place depending what requirements or standard the manufacturer are holding themselves too.

squerble · 5 Jul 2022 at 08:57

Simon said:
Yeah it’s the lack of noise and most EV pitch a fair bit, combined with instant regen when you lift off. This is why I don’t like high regen on EVs

I've got my sport mode defaulted to Level 1 regen on my Kona which is roughly equivalent to engine braking on an ICE car. I can also use the paddles to quickly turn regen off so when I come off the accelerator it just coasts rather than go into full regen/any regen at all.

SDK^ · 5 Jul 2022 at 09:05

Simon said:
Have you got the performance version then ? It won’t hold it that long. They soon hit peak torque and derate due to design and heat. Heat Especially on dry motors

Edit. Found this plot.

Misha Charoudin - My Polestar 2 Gets Performance...

www.polestar-forum.com

That's the plot I had but read 80 as MPH not KPH - still impressive

m4rmite · 5 Jul 2022 at 09:10

squerble said:
I've got my sport mode defaulted to Level 1 regen on my Kona which is roughly equivalent to engine braking on an ICE car. I can also use the paddles to quickly turn regen off so when I come off the accelerator it just coasts rather than go into full regen/any regen at all.

Like yours my Mg5 can have the regen turned up and down as well, if at 100% charge then no regen occurs and you coast as though in neutral.
Braking distance from 60mph for my car(35m) isn't great but it's the same as a kia i30 n which is billed as a hot hatch.
Weight wise mine is 1595ish kg and the i30 n is 1504kg - someone much have fitted puny ev brakes to the i30 n

A current 320d estate is just shy of 1800kg, so how is my ev "heavy".

Legally my car can't tow a slug, but I'm sure it could. Well 500kg is the stated limit.

Like most forums, I'm amazed at the experts who either don't work in the field or have an EV to test their theories.

Simon · 5 Jul 2022 at 09:14

SDK^ said:
That's the plot I had but read 80 as MPH not KPH - still impressive

shows they tail off too. But instant torque is their party piece as we know. We won’t mention your exaggerated torque numbers though

SDK^ · 5 Jul 2022 at 09:21

Simon said:
shows they tail off too. But instant torque is their party piece as we know. We won’t mention your exaggerated torque numbers though

Depends how you test and conditions
The Performance Centre (UK) tested a standard P2 at 723Nm in July last year. (before the Performance Update). Also, Masha mentioned the cold temps in that video impacting the performance numbers.

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squerble · 5 Jul 2022 at 10:01

Surely it's worth noting that most (all?) EVs will be running a reduction gear on the end of the motor, which also multiplies torque by the same factor as I understand. According to an online calc the wheels on my Kona will be doing 895rpm at 70mph - I believe most reductions will be in the range of 7-10:1?

EDIT: In fact that begs the question that, if the torque is multiplied by the reduction factor (which I understand it is), then my Kona is technically sending 4000Nm to the wheels when the motor is outputting 400Nm of torque, assuming a 10:1 reduction?

EDIT 2: Reduction gear is 7.981 on the Kona (according to Hyundai docs), so 395Nm of torque out of the motor means just over 3000Nm sent to the wheels....

Simon · 5 Jul 2022 at 10:21

Yeh. Welcome to a gearbox.

chanjy · 5 Jul 2022 at 10:26

Or the listed 400Nm is measured at the wheel not the motor?

The Megane EV is catchign my eye. Our second car is hardly getting any use at the moment so tempted to get a slightly larger EV than the e-208 we currently have and ditch the big gas guzzler entirely. Maybe buy an old hot hatch to act as an emergency backup when we need 2 cars.

Simon · 5 Jul 2022 at 10:28

My cupra born V2 order is now end October eta. Hope it’s not delayed but was a pre price increase zenith order on a SS scheme

Quite a few on the fb page in stock at dealers too if anyone got 40k cash burning a hole in their pocket.

SDK^ · 5 Jul 2022 at 10:34

Simon said:
My cupra born V2 order is now end October eta. Hope it’s not delayed but was a pre price increase zenith order on a SS scheme

Nice - I saw A Born last week and it looked good - Better than the ID3 it's based on.

squerble · 5 Jul 2022 at 10:40

chanjy said:
Or the listed 400Nm is measured at the wheel not the motor?

The Megane EV is catchign my eye. Our second car is hardly getting any use at the moment so tempted to get a slightly larger EV than the e-208 we currently have and ditch the big gas guzzler entirely. Maybe buy an old hot hatch to act as an emergency backup when we need 2 cars.

Seems unlikely the motors would only be producing 50Nm of torque

Agreed, the Megane EV does look really nice. Interior looks good too - the Android Automotive seems to run really well on a few vids I've watched on YouTube.

chanjy · 5 Jul 2022 at 10:52

squerble said:
Seems unlikely the motors would only be producing 50Nm of torque

Hmm yes that does sound wrong. But 3000nm at the wheel also doesn't sound quite right?

Jonnycoupe · 5 Jul 2022 at 10:58

It's right, similar to a ICE in 1st gear. ICE has benefit is it power rating is far more of a continous output rather than EV being a peak output for ~10 seconds whatever the metric maybe.

Simon · 5 Jul 2022 at 11:21

SDK^ said:
Nice - I saw A Born last week and it looked good - Better than the ID3 it's based on.

Yeh. Interior is miles better reviews are good and the V2 58kWh has a good range of options. V3 seats much better but the 20s look a bit crap close up and not worth £40 a month

I did have a mini l2 on order but kept getting delayed then I realised the 100-120mile range and no rear doors would annoy me. Was only £220 a month though

TheVoice · 5 Jul 2022 at 17:51

BTP are planning to be the first UK force to go all-electric with a target of 2025. They'll be one of the first to have marked Teslas and the first to have marked EV6s. There's also some Polestar 2s and other less-interesting stuff e.g. Vivaro-e, Corsa-e and Peugeot e-208 to come:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542935061670027265

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544022300831498242

Doobedoo · 5 Jul 2022 at 18:13

That Kia looks nice.

viper_2003 · 6 Jul 2022 at 08:02

TheVoice said:
BTP are planning to be the first UK force to go all-electric with a target of 2025. They'll be one of the first to have marked Teslas and the first to have marked EV6s. There's also some Polestar 2s and other less-interesting stuff e.g. Vivaro-e, Corsa-e and Peugeot e-208 to come:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1542935061670027265

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1544022300831498242

I suppose they can always catch the train if they run out of charge!

jpaul · 6 Jul 2022 at 09:16

viper_2003 said:
I suppose they can always catch the train if they run out of charge!

police using teslas in the usa didn't run out of charge, video of recent chase, officer couldn't engage reverse fast enough in the tesla to block the other car in

chanjy said:
The Megane EV is catchign my eye. Our second car is hardly getting any use at the moment so tempted to get a slightly larger EV than the e-208 we currently have and ditch the big gas guzzler entirely. Maybe buy an old hot hatch to act as an emergency backup when we need 2 cars.

Agree seems the pick of the bunch especially with its low weight, some controversy on the touch screen size being smaller in the uk than europe (9vs11 I thought)
new reviews of Astra22's saloon/estate still say that will be available in full electric next year too, so, more cars in the sub-premium/affordable segment,
with new car delays sounds as though you must be prepared to reserve even before cars have been reviewed/off-plan