Well how are they going to NATO if they're currently at war and have huge tracts of land occupied? Whilst I think Mr SPD is probably desperately trying to save what little remains of Germany's foreign policy I think there's rather a lot of issues currently with letting Ukraine join NATO.
Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar
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Soldato
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my (limited) understanding is that Corbyn is anti conflict... which on the surface is not always a bad thing..... I very much suspect that he would be against the war in the Ukraine but he would be unlikely to offer anything other than economic sanctions against Russia... i doubt he would help with supplying weaponry to ukraine etc (which imo is the wrong approach, I do support supplying defensive arms to allow a country to defend against invaders).... but this is just my view.
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Ukraine joining NATO is essentially declaring war on Russia or at the very least have NATO forces take offensive action against Russian forces in Ukraine. That's not something to be taken lightly and would make NATO something it's not designed to be (defensive rather than aggressive). You could argue for a plan to be put in place for Ukraine to join NATO but then you're looking at a game of brinkmanship with Russia. Will they back off? How much of Ukraine would the try to occupy? Would Ukraine continue to militarily try and reclaim its land when a NATO member?
I don't think what's being said is unexpected or wrong.
The is a lot of potential domestic trouble possible when gas supplies cease and their energy infrastructure can't supply the citizens with heat or electricity
at that point people sadly won't suck it up and go oh well, at least we are helping Ukraine, they'll be demanding the government do something, or there may even be large scale riots. Heck it could severely damage their industry due to being so dependent on cheap imported Russian gas.Nordstream 1 gets turned off for maintenance in a week or so, and they fear Russia may refuse to turn it back on.
Honestly, I kind of selfishly understand the reluctance to do, what seems like an obviously choice, they don't have a plan yet to prevent rationing and potential failure of supplies. It could cause massive issues for them domestically, as horrific as it is in terms of helping Ukraine or keeping their heating and electricity on. Transitioning away from 40% roughly to 0% is a heck of a task, and is unlikely to happen this year, hence the reluctance of Germany to jeopardize supply by not supporting Ukraine's Nato application.
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Soldato
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It doesn't look great.
To be fair, if a country already at war and partly occupied joined NATO, it would lead to some very difficult decisions, and almost certainly escalate to a nuclear conflict.
Soldato
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That's nothing new for Russia they were doing that back in 2014. in 2014 I remember seeing a Vice video of them interviewing one Russian mother who was given her sons ashes and was told to keep her mouth shut otherwise she wouldn't get paid, now Russia just lists is men as missing so they don't have payout the bereavement benefits to the family.
Soldato
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Is there serious chatter about them joining NATO at this time? I understand they can't even if they want to whilst their country is under occupation.
Definitely seems like it's an idea that is putting the horse before the cart, so to speak.
Definitely seems like it's an idea that is putting the horse before the cart, so to speak.
Amazing how ******* insane people are about Corbyn. A man who was critical about Putin back when Blair was forging closer links. A man who called for Tory MPs links with Russian oligarchs to be investigated in the wake of Salisbury poisonings, and was roundly criticised for it by both the Tories AND from within his own party. A man who was called a security risk and Russian asset when this was actually happening:
Get it together bro.
Corbyn just has an ideological bent that anything can be solved by just talking enough/negotiations with an anti-war sentiment stemming out of that, even when that flies, utterly, in the face of reality. He would be just as much a security risk even if born out of ostensibly good intentions.
I don't agree with the pro-Tory slander but it boggles my mind anyone would consider Corbyn an any better option.
*EU Commissioner Breton: Every EU Country Must Produce As Much Energy As Necessary, Surplus Will Also Be Important for Neighbours
*EU Commissioner Breton: Every Country Must Show It Is Doing Everything Possible, Could Also Affect Coal, Nuclear Energy
*Ukraine Presidential Adviser Podolyak on Twitter: Thanks UK’s Johnson for “Always Being at Forefront of Supporting Ukraine”
*EU Commissioner Breton: Every Country Must Show It Is Doing Everything Possible, Could Also Affect Coal, Nuclear Energy
*Ukraine Presidential Adviser Podolyak on Twitter: Thanks UK’s Johnson for “Always Being at Forefront of Supporting Ukraine”
*Bali, Indonesia: German ForMin Baerbock: We Will Not Allow Consequences of Russia’s Ukraine War to Throw yet Other Regions Into Chaos
*Bali, Indonesia: German ForMin Baerbock: We Will Do Everything to Make Sure Countries That Did Not Cause This War Will Not Suffer Its Consequences
*Bali, Indonesia: German ForMin Baerbock: If We Allow Countries to Invade Smaller Neighbours, No Small Country on Earth Can Feel Safe
*Top U.S. General Speaks With Chinese Counterpart About Need to “Responsibly Manage Competition and Maintain Open Lines of Communication” — Pentagon
*UK Prime Minister’s Office: Prime Minister Johnson Said in Call With Ukraine’s Zelenskiy That He Would Continue to Work at Pace With Partners to Try and End Grain Blockade in Coming Weeks
*UK Prime Minister’s Office: President Zelenskyy Thanked Prime Minister for His Decisive Action on Ukraine
*UK Prime Minister’s Office: Prime Minister Johnson Finished Call by Praising President Zelenskyy, Saying: ‘You’re a Hero, Everybody Loves You”
*Bali, Indonesia: German ForMin Baerbock: We Will Do Everything to Make Sure Countries That Did Not Cause This War Will Not Suffer Its Consequences
*Bali, Indonesia: German ForMin Baerbock: If We Allow Countries to Invade Smaller Neighbours, No Small Country on Earth Can Feel Safe
*Top U.S. General Speaks With Chinese Counterpart About Need to “Responsibly Manage Competition and Maintain Open Lines of Communication” — Pentagon
*UK Prime Minister’s Office: Prime Minister Johnson Said in Call With Ukraine’s Zelenskiy That He Would Continue to Work at Pace With Partners to Try and End Grain Blockade in Coming Weeks
*UK Prime Minister’s Office: President Zelenskyy Thanked Prime Minister for His Decisive Action on Ukraine
*UK Prime Minister’s Office: Prime Minister Johnson Finished Call by Praising President Zelenskyy, Saying: ‘You’re a Hero, Everybody Loves You”
LOL and what is his current stance on Ukraine? He thinks they should be disarmed and some hand-waving waffle about negotiations... and then switches to some whataboutery re: the west, blaming NATO etc.
Labour: Difficult to see Jeremy Corbyn return after Nato remarks - Starmer
The ex-Labour leader suggested the alliance be disbanded, sparking further ire from the current boss.
www.bbc.co.uk
He thinks there should be a demilitarisation of the whole situation not just Ukraine disarming - he utterly believes that the situation can be resolved via negotiation.
That video is Corbyn in a nutshell and it is amazing how people can't see that despite reasonable enough appeals to reason his words are at face value they are based on utterly insane [even if well intentioned] ideals which don't stand up to the real world.
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It's not unreasonable to criticise Corbyn for his Peace and Love ideals, but it is unreasonable to suggest he'd actively support Russia, as per the post I was responding to.LOL and what is his current stance on Ukraine? He thinks they should be disarmed and some hand-waving waffle about negotiations... and then switches to some whataboutery re: the west, blaming NATO etc.
Labour: Difficult to see Jeremy Corbyn return after Nato remarks - Starmer
The ex-Labour leader suggested the alliance be disbanded, sparking further ire from the current boss.
I don't think anyone in this thread wants war with Russia.
Soldato
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Russia have shown they aren't willing to have peace talks really here, not sure what you expect talk of peace to achieve if they won't entertain it?
Previous agreements they've also broken, so even if these so called peace talks happen now, they'll just be back in a few more years to finish the job.
People seem to think that if Ukraine gives Russia what they want everything will be well, but I just don't see that being the case, the best way to get proper peace is for Ukraine to actually be winning (or at least making the cost to Russia so great it can't keep going).
Previous agreements they've also broken, so even if these so called peace talks happen now, they'll just be back in a few more years to finish the job.
People seem to think that if Ukraine gives Russia what they want everything will be well, but I just don't see that being the case, the best way to get proper peace is for Ukraine to actually be winning (or at least making the cost to Russia so great it can't keep going).
Some people are just realistic when it comes to the prospects of peace, at least any meaningful peace, through dialogue/negotiation.
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