The Liverpool Club Thread. **No Spoilers** *New Sponsors, Comedy Central!*

BaZ87 said:
I can't recall word for word what you said 18 months ago but it was broadly along the lines of what you've said here and we went on to win two cups, pick up 90+ points and reach the CL final, playing every possible game available to us and winning more games in a single season than every before. I think it's fair to say that the state of our squad wasn't as bad as you had suggested.
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I don't recall what I said 18 months ago either, but I was concerned about our midfield and ageing attack line. We've rectified that in our front line with Diaz and Darwin.

I admit, the team did exceed my expectations last season, and I hope they do again this season!

Regarding the rest of your post, I'm a bit confused. In your initial post you complained about Origi and Minamino leaving but now are happy with our attacking options "as long as Bobby regains his consistency". I'm not sure how anybody could argue that our attacking options are not stronger today than they were 12 months ago. Even if Firmino doesn't regain his consistency (he's goal and assist rate in the last 13 months is probably the best in his time with us btw), he's still a lot better than Origi and Minamino and this what you have to acknowledge. Firmino is no longer a 1st team regular but a squad option and he's a far better squad option than either of those two. Firmino the 1st team regular has already been replaced with Jota & Nunez.
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These are separate points.

Our attack:

12 months ago: Salah, Mane, Jota, Bobby, Minamino, Origi
6 months ago: Salah, Mane, Jota, Bobby, Minamino, Origi, Diaz
now: Salah, Jota, Bobby, Diaz, Darwin

I'd argue our depth is now weaker but our quality is higher than 12 months ago.

Compared to 6 months ago, our quality is on par or maybe slightly worse, but our depth is much worse. 6 months ago we had 5 first-team attackers and 2 good covers, now we still have 5 and we've lost the 2 covers.

What has happened with our attack is and will continue to happen with our midfield. We have 8 central midfielders right now - we're not scraping the barrel, desperate to sign anybody (which is why we haven't) however we will undoubtedly sign 2 or even 3 in the next 12 months and certain key first team players today will slowly before less relied upon. The likes of Henderson and certainly Thiago aren't going to just fall off a cliff though - they'll still be hugely important members of the squad but a couple of decent signings will massively ease the burden on them, as will the emergence of Elliott and Jones.
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If we sign 3 midfielders in the next 12 months I think that's pretty good. I don't see why that'd be the case, the plan is to sign Bellingham next season so that's 1 signing in the next 24 months.

As for Henderson and Thiago falling off a cliff, I'm sure they maintain their levels somewhat. Although Henderson has already dropped a level or two compared to 2-3 years ago.

MissChief said:
The Midfield situation is far from the defensive one we had in 20/21 When we had season long injuries that necessitated playing very inexperienced players or moving midfielders into defence. Sure we could end up struggling if we get injuries again during the season and I think this is why we’re looking for someone.
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We had season-ending injuries for VVD, Gomez and Matip, and we had let go of Lovren without replacing him.

Imagine our midfield situation if we get season-ending injuries for Fabinho, Henderson and Thiago. It will be worse than our defence in 20/21.

C Kent said:
So the guy saying in 2021, 3 years after the deal fell threw, that the knee wasn't the cause and it was the agents fault is irrelevant and you'll happy take the word of said agent. Ok.
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Do you seriously expect the guy to say no it was my knees, seriously harming his own future prospects? Of course he says it wasn't his knees and blames something else. I listen to all sides and make a decision. Like I said, they both have valid points and the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

As for Fekir himself, we initially agreed a £53 million deal to sign him, he had his medical, the deal fell apart for some reason. He plays the 18/19 season scoring half the goals compared to the season before. Then he goes to Real Betis for £17 million. Since then his stats never recovered, no major team ever interested in signing him.

I guess a bad agent is to blame for his valuation dropping from £53 million to £17 million and then never recovering to his past levels. Us seeing something in the medical that made us reconsider his valuation? IMPOSSIBLE. Him blaming his agent? YES!
 
HACO said:
....We've rectified that in our front line with Diaz and Darwin....
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And this is the point I'm making. We had an ageing front line with not good enough cover and changed all that within 6 months or so, without there being a noticeable transformation. I can see the exact same thing happening with our midfield. We don't need to sign 5 midfielders, I'm not even sure we need 3 over the next 12 months. Obviously we have to make the right signings but adding a Jota/Diaz midfield equivalent either in the next few days or in January and then adding another next summer, with Ox, Keita and Milner leaving and I think our midfield looks fine and in a good position for the next few years.
 
HACO said:
We had season-ending injuries for VVD, Gomez and Matip, and we had let go of Lovren without replacing him.
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You keep repeating this like it's fact, you are wrong. Nat Phillips was promoted to the 1st team squad once Lovren left - we didn't have 3 cb's.

HACO said:
Do you seriously expect the guy to say no it was my knees, seriously harming his own future prospects? Of course he says it wasn't his knees and blames something else. I listen to all sides and make a decision. Like I said, they both have valid points and the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

As for Fekir himself, we initially agreed a £53 million deal to sign him, he had his medical, the deal fell apart for some reason. He plays the 18/19 season scoring half the goals compared to the season before. Then he goes to Real Betis for £17 million. Since then his stats never recovered, no major team ever interested in signing him.

I guess a bad agent is to blame for his valuation dropping from £53 million to £17 million and then never recovering to his past levels. Us seeing something in the medical that made us reconsider his valuation? IMPOSSIBLE. Him blaming his agent? YES!
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I think you should stop reading the sun
 
BaZ87 said:
And this is the point I'm making. We had an ageing front line with not good enough cover and changed all that within 6 months or so, without there being a noticeable transformation. I can see the exact same thing happening with our midfield. We don't need to sign 5 midfielders, I'm not even sure we need 3 over the next 12 months.
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I don't disagree in general, I can also see the same thing happened to midfield, if we get serious about it, we can find a solution. There's a larger question mark whether about our ability to find gems in the market when it comes to midfielders is as good as our ability for defenders and attackers, but I'm not too worried about that right now.

My point is, we need to see it actually happen rather than "seeing that it's possible to happen" -- we're doing nothing right now. I'm not saying it's not addressable, I'm saying we need to address it.

Obviously we have to make the right signings but adding a Jota/Diaz midfield equivalent either in the next few days or in January and then adding another next summer, with Ox, Keita and Milner leaving and I think our midfield looks fine and in a good position for the next few years.
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Sure, if that happens I'll be happy. But that needs to actually happen.
 
C Kent said:
You keep repeating this like it's fact, you are wrong. Nat Phillips was promoted to the 1st team squad once Lovren left - we didn't have 3 cb's.
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Nat Philips had no senior top-level league appearance before the 20/21 season in any country. Calling him a 1st team CB alongside VVD, Gomez and Matip is just being disingenuous. In the 19/20 season he was the fourth choice CB for Stuttgard in Bundesliga's second division, that's our 1st team CB according to you. Totally in the calibre of the player you claim he replaced (Lovren, who had started CL and world cup finals).

At this point this is Poe's law so I give up. As to not feed you any further, you are correct on all counts :D

I think you should stop reading the sun
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I gave you the same material in Sky and Mirror too, saying the same thing. You'll find it everywhere because it was widely reported on. As people say in this day and age ignorance is a choice. You didn't respond to any of my point so at this point I'll give up.
 
Dejan, was a calamity defender in the main, so him leaving and being replaced with big Nat wasn’t a massive drop in quality. He may have played in finals but he wasn’t a great defender.
 
HACO said:
You didn't respond to any of my point so at this point I'll give up.
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There's nothing to respond to as its all conjecture on your part, you are choosing to take the word of the agent over the guy himself. As am I to a certain degree btw, as the club has and never will come out and say why the deal fell apart.
HACO said:
Nat Philips had no senior top-level league appearance before the 20/21 season in any country. Calling him a 1st team CB alongside VVD, Gomez and Matip is just being disingenuous. In the 19/20 season he was the fourth choice CB for Stuttgard in Bundesliga's second division, that's our 1st team CB according to you. Totally in the calibre of the player you claim he replaced (Lovren, who had started CL and world cup finals).
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Just because you dont like it doesn't make it any less true, with Lovren leaving he was promoted to 1st team CB. Was he trusted post xmas over the likes of Hendo and Fab once VVD, Gomez and then Matip got injured? No. But that's on Klopp, it wasn't until Fab and hendo started picking up injuries after February of that season that he partnered Kabak 1st of all and then when he got cursed injured we called up Williams.

He did a fantastic job in that run of 10 games at the end of the season with the slight tweak to how high our defensive line was, if he had been trusted before that we might not have slipped from top of the table in December, we'll never know.

Ultimately though, we had more than 3 cb's.
 
The boss confirmed Henderson was subbed due to a hamstring problem. I really hope this is not serious as we really can't afford to lose him for a long time with the upcoming games.

On the plus side it seems like Thiago is getting closer to full training and there's a good chance he'll be available against Wolves/Ajax. Matip and Jones are back to training as well, and Jota is expected to return to training tomorrow. Nunez has now served his full suspension and is available again. I hope he's used his time off the pitch to get stronger and fitter and he should be back with a vengeance.

We're slowly getting full our squad back.
 
A bit of an update from Klopp on our injuries. Jota's back in full training and should be involved tomorrow, Thiago will be back in full training on Monday so if not Napoli, will be available for the Wolves game, Keita & Ox are still someway off, Konate a couple of weeks away from training so probably not back in the side until after the international break and no news on Hendo's scan as yet but he'll be out for this weekend. Other than that Klopp said he doesn't expect Arthur's international clearance to come through in time to be involved tomorrow.
 
Squad is coming back at the right time. After tomorrow's game we'll have 3 games in 6 days (Napoli, Wolves, Ajax) so we need to rotate a bit so Thiago, Matip, Arthur, Jota and Nunez returning is very welcome.
 
HACO said:
Squad is coming back at the right time. After tomorrow's game we'll have 3 games in 6 days (Napoli, Wolves, Ajax) so we need to rotate a bit so Thiago, Matip, Arthur, Jota and Nunez returning is very welcome.
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The key is getting through to the International break without any new injuries. Hopefully by then the likes of Konate and Henderson will be back, if not sooner and then the squad is looking much healthier and we can rotate more.
Pigeon_Killer said:
If Matip reverts back to Mr Glass rather than the Terminator of last season I'll be very disappointed.
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The Matip of old would have been out for 2 months with his latest injury. He's as hard as nails these days.
 
I cant see us going 6 3 weeks without injury. At least with Arthur we can rotate a bit more. Balague said today its a replacement for Thiago being injured so i'll absolutely take that.

I had him down to start in the CL next week but he doesnt seem to have played in pre season so it might be a few weeks yet.
 
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