Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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ubersonic said:
I hate to point it out, but whatever the long term result in Ukraine, the Russian sanctions will not be in force in a decade, they would be lucky to still be in force in half a decade. Western governments/companies don't have much stomach for doing such things, hence why they watched Putin spend months organising an invasion of Ukraine, then delay it, then wait, then finally invade and all the time western governments did nothing to try and stop it aside from talk, then finally came in late with sanctions. The only reason western governments care about anything is because their voters happen to care about it at the time.

To put it into perspective, back in 2008 the US banking sector created a financial crisis that crippled their economy and sent shockwaves throughout the world, people were livid, millions lost their jobs/homes and when all was said and done, their government then used taxpayers funds to bail out the financial institutions who then used the money to pay themselves big bonuses and blame everything on poor people and immigrants, people got even more livid. But a couple of years later hardly anyone in the US really cared about it anymore because it was old news, that was their own economy and you think they're going to care enough about Ukraine in 5-10 years to make their government care?

And it's not just the Americans who lose interest, when did you last hear people talk about the Syrian civil war or see it on the news? How's Assad doing against ISIS and the western backed rebels? How's Libya doing right now? Last I heard it looked like it was gonna be the leading warlord versus Gaddafi's son in the run off for the presidency (that's not a joke in case anyone not up to date with Libya is wondering).

The west does not care about conflicts long term, prior to February Russia had been militarily occupying an area of Ukraine bigger than Wales since 2014 but nobody cared anymore, when I dared to suggest on here a week before the invasion that the west should start imposing sanctions in response to Putin preparing to invade a peaceful neighbour I got laughed down. Putin believes if he can keep things going until winter then the amount the west cares will once again decrease drastically, and the sad thing is he isn't wrong, Ukraine are in a race not just against Russia but against winter and eventually the time limit before the west tire of supporting a just war and become more interested in supporting a bad peace.
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Yet we have Afghanistan and Iraq both really long term deployments.
Korea?
Iraq is still ongoing as is the fight against Isis.

Sanctions against Iran,Korea etc have been ongoing for decades.

Just because the media get bored of it doesn't mean the militaries/governments have given up.

Ukraine has vast amounts of mineral wealth and agricultural lands which the west will not want to fall into the hands of Russia/China.

Russia will be bled dry by this conflict.
 
Rroff said:
Interesting comparison between the Polish Krab and Soviet era Msta-S - quite an advantage on the battlefield if they had enough of them.

www.youtube.com

'A Porsche Compared To A Lada': Ukrainian Artillerists Swap Soviet Howitzer For Polish-Built Krab

Current Time's Borys Sachalko joined a Ukrainian crew in a Krab self-propelled howitzer. The four-man team used to operate a Soviet-era Msta-S howitzer and s...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
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Yes but i not sure how many of them Poland have to give away?
 
alchal said:
Yet we have Afghanistan and Iraq both really long term deployments.
Korea?
Iraq is still ongoing as is the fight against Isis.

Sanctions against Iran,Korea etc have been ongoing for decades.

Just because the media get bored of it doesn't mean the militaries/governments have given up.

Ukraine has vast amounts of mineral wealth and agricultural lands which the west will not want to fall into the hands of Russia/China.

Russia will be bled dry by this conflict.
Click to expand...

Have you seen the state of Afghanistan?

Russia accept that they will suffer, a few people are saying that the West won't accept suffering for long, especially when people start dying due to energy costs.
 
Rroff said:
Interesting comparison between the Polish Krab and Soviet era Msta-S - quite an advantage on the battlefield if they had enough of them.

www.youtube.com

'A Porsche Compared To A Lada': Ukrainian Artillerists Swap Soviet Howitzer For Polish-Built Krab

Current Time's Borys Sachalko joined a Ukrainian crew in a Krab self-propelled howitzer. The four-man team used to operate a Soviet-era Msta-S howitzer and s...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
Click to expand...

Looks like a nice system, Ukraine could really use a couple hundred of these and a million rounds of that 40km ammunition . It's clearly better than what the Russian crews are using but the Russians still have the advantage in numbers
 
ubersonic said:
I hate to point it out, but whatever the long term result in Ukraine, the Russian sanctions will not be in force in a decade, they would be lucky to still be in force in half a decade. Western governments/companies don't have much stomach for doing such things, hence why they watched Putin spend months organising an invasion of Ukraine, then delay it, then wait, then finally invade and all the time western governments did nothing to try and stop it aside from talk, then finally came in late with sanctions. The only reason western governments care about anything is because their voters happen to care about it at the time.

To put it into perspective, back in 2008 the US banking sector created a financial crisis that crippled their economy and sent shockwaves throughout the world, people were livid, millions lost their jobs/homes and when all was said and done, their government then used taxpayers funds to bail out the financial institutions who then used the money to pay themselves big bonuses and blame everything on poor people and immigrants, people got even more livid. But a couple of years later hardly anyone in the US really cared about it anymore because it was old news, that was their own economy and you think they're going to care enough about Ukraine in 5-10 years to make their government care?

And it's not just the Americans who lose interest, when did you last hear people talk about the Syrian civil war or see it on the news? How's Assad doing against ISIS and the western backed rebels? How's Libya doing right now? Last I heard it looked like it was gonna be the leading warlord versus Gaddafi's son in the run off for the presidency (that's not a joke in case anyone not up to date with Libya is wondering).

The west does not care about conflicts long term, prior to February Russia had been militarily occupying an area of Ukraine bigger than Wales since 2014 but nobody cared anymore, when I dared to suggest on here a week before the invasion that the west should start imposing sanctions in response to Putin preparing to invade a peaceful neighbour I got laughed down. Putin believes if he can keep things going until winter then the amount the west cares will once again decrease drastically, and the sad thing is he isn't wrong, Ukraine are in a race not just against Russia but against winter and eventually the time limit before the west tire of supporting a just war and become more interested in supporting a bad peace.
Click to expand...
I still disagree, the West is going to great lengths to destroy Russia right now, if they stay in Ukrain they will not lift the sanctions because that would be a Russian win and they are never going to allow that. Keeping their biggest rival down will give them great pleasure
 
sigma said:
Have you seen the state of Afghanistan?

Russia accept that they will suffer, a few people are saying that the West won't accept suffering for long, especially when people start dying due to energy costs.
Click to expand...
What's the state of Afghanistan got to do with anything???
That was a country that was pretty backwards with a population that was hostile, very different to Ukraine no?

You said the west won't be in it for the long haul and cited some examples, I gave some to show that you are very very much wrong with that theory.

See post 43,541 or the fact storages across Europe are already 80% full.

Also some examples of the west giving up due to the cost of living?

Must hurt seeing Russia screwing up so badly with no way out other than hoping, like you, that they cave in due to gas shortages.
 
bingham67 said:
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Nice :D

bingham67 said:

:cry:
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The thing about one of the clips there that blows my mind is that that's Donetsk airport! They've been fighting in that same area for years, it's crazy how in some parts of the East it seems like Russia has barely been able to take much ground!

Likewise further north around Kharkiv, it's literally right next to the Russian border and they failed to take it after 6 months and in fact, ended up being driven back... no logistics excuses there either!
 
dowie said:
The thing about one of the clips there that blows my mind is that that's Donetsk airport! They've been fighting in that same area for years, it's crazy how in some parts of the East it seems like Russia has barely been able to take much ground!

Likewise further north around Kharkiv, it's literally right next to the Russian border and they failed to take it after 6 months and in fact, ended up being driven back... no logistics excuses there either!
Click to expand...

It is something which has generally gone under the radar - Ukraine had a lot of troops deployed to the original line of control and have mostly held the line there throughout this conflict - in some cases under extremely intense conditions.

Kharkiv is incredible though - while they do have the 92nd Mechanized Brigade there who by all reports are rather good the bulk of the fighting power has been irregular forces some of them with little more than a weeks weapons training facing off against forces backed by Russia's elite guards divisions - though from the videos a lot has come down to overly liberal use of RPGs against the Russian forces in the early days. Seen some videos of the Ukrainian scout/recon groups in that region as well and those guys know their stuff - clearly been trained by the best and competent enough to put it into real practise.
 
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