Well, i don't. Hence this thread.
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Jenson wants higher margins for his GPU's, here is how he's going to do it.
- Thread starter humbug
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Well, i don't. Hence this thread.
Right, its really not.
Well it makes no sense, arguing over nothing.
It should make perfect sense.
Who's fault is it then?
Is it the people buying or is it amd for not competing with Nvidia in the ways that people would like thus for those people they only have 1 choice...
And you think amd would be any different/better? Or do you think behind closed doors they talk about how to best benefit their customers and not increase their profits/margins as that isn't what their multi billion pound company is about....
No, for about the third time now i think AMD would do exactly the same thing if they were in Nvidia's shoes, but they ain't, so they don't even come in to it.
Ok so when/if amd end up dominating the market and Nvidia are the ones with 20% "mindshare" we can expect to see a similar thread except focusing on just amds business practices later on then
Ok so when/if amd end up dominating the market and Nvidia are the ones with 20% "mindshare" we can expect to see a similar thread by yourself down the line then
Sure.....
You see i don't care, Red, Green, Orange, Black, Blue... its all the same to me.
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Until i see real bench marks and real pricing with real power usage i take no notice of so called speculation and what might be. Same with AMD lets see real results before passing judgement on who will rip who off lol
Soldato
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Well I care that there's a monopoly so I've categorically refused to buy anything from Nvidia since they became a monopoly. Just like I refused to buy from Intel when they were a monopoly.
I'm 100% certain that GPU prices would be lower and performance would be higher if Nvidia and AMD had closer to 50% market share between them.
At the moment, Nvidia can charge high prices because the consumers have no other option but to pay it (the majority don't see Radeon as an option unfortunately).
Most people seem to think that AMD are also to blame for high prices because they're just as bad. But I don't see how AMD can turn a profit by lowering prices if their market share is only 17%. Surely it's the highly lucrative and profitable CPU business that helps keep the Radeon side a float?
If AMD lower Radeon prices, they'll still have a very poor market share. So what is the point? If they thought a 20% price reduction would get their market share up to 50% then I'm sure they would in a heartbeat because they'd get their 20% back. But it wouldn't happen. The majority would still buy Nvidia.
just the other day he was claiming the average price of a GPU should be the same cost of a console, now he's like 4-5x that cos the stock is tanking as no one wants tp pay silly prices for a gpu.
AMD havent really been any better, so now it's like who are we meant to buy cards from and vote with our wallets?
second hand market costs the same as a new card still.... look the members market most the guys selling cards are still trying 20quid discount over buying new with a warranty lol? I see some of them have price dropped about 10x too when will they learn scalping the second hand market is gone.
there's one thread where someone offers 410 and the guy is like no, but then his last post is trying to sell the card for 370
4 months later.....
The state of the GPU market, you couldn't make it up
AMD havent really been any better, so now it's like who are we meant to buy cards from and vote with our wallets?
second hand market costs the same as a new card still.... look the members market most the guys selling cards are still trying 20quid discount over buying new with a warranty lol? I see some of them have price dropped about 10x too when will they learn scalping the second hand market is gone.
there's one thread where someone offers 410 and the guy is like no, but then his last post is trying to sell the card for 370
4 months later.....
The state of the GPU market, you couldn't make it up
There is a price point at which AMD can have an impact on Nvidia's market share, that is, i think about 25% below the lowest price Nvidia are willing to go.
I think that is deep in to the point where AMD would lose money on every GPU they sell, AMD simply cannot afford to do that, Nvidia would just sit back and make them do it until AMD are bankrupt.
The thing with AMD vs Intel is its just about performance, one scores a bigger bar chart than the other = better.
With GPU's its far more complex, its DLSS vs Free-Sync, Its RT, its software, its drivers and its performance, and this is where it gets complicated, if one had a higher RT bar than the other then it doesn't matter that it also crashes in Forza 5 if you turn the graphics up because it lacks VRam, bigger RT bar = win, end of/
So AMD also have to be careful where they spend their R&D and product production costs, and where that advantage lands could change in an instant as consumers decide now this is more important than that.
AMD know this, they will continue making GPU's, as good as they can for their R&D expenditure and production costs, charge a little bit less than Nvidia and in that way also benefit from the inflated margins set by Nvidia.
I think that is deep in to the point where AMD would lose money on every GPU they sell, AMD simply cannot afford to do that, Nvidia would just sit back and make them do it until AMD are bankrupt.
The thing with AMD vs Intel is its just about performance, one scores a bigger bar chart than the other = better.
With GPU's its far more complex, its DLSS vs Free-Sync, Its RT, its software, its drivers and its performance, and this is where it gets complicated, if one had a higher RT bar than the other then it doesn't matter that it also crashes in Forza 5 if you turn the graphics up because it lacks VRam, bigger RT bar = win, end of/
So AMD also have to be careful where they spend their R&D and product production costs, and where that advantage lands could change in an instant as consumers decide now this is more important than that.
AMD know this, they will continue making GPU's, as good as they can for their R&D expenditure and production costs, charge a little bit less than Nvidia and in that way also benefit from the inflated margins set by Nvidia.
That blame for lack of competition belongs mostly to those having been Jenson's slaves for up to two decades.
AMD/ATI had plenty of competent products and some times even clearly better.
For example Fermi was very energy inefficient space heater breaking power consumption records at the time.
And still people rewarded Nvidia claiming power consumption didn't matter.
But when Radeons had to sacrifice energy efficiency to be performance competitive that was big no, even if Radeons were clearly cheaper.
Better performance per price has also been tried many times.
While on other side Nvidia had "bumpgate" of whole series of easily failing cards, or even couple buggy drivers burning some cards by paralyzing cooling fan(s).
Neither of which had any real effect to market share and were swept under the carpet and forgotten fast by loyal slaves.
Now how the heck you expect company to keep top notch R&D in such situation when they can't get best sales and profits no matter what?
While competitor gets lots of sales and profits even with worser products and free pass literally for GPU murder?
There was time when Nvidia was small fish 25 years ago and gaming graphics card market was dominated by single (first to the market) chip maker.Ok so when/if amd end up dominating the market and Nvidia are the ones with 20% "mindshare" we can expect to see a similar thread except focusing on just amds business practices later on then
And there was no crazy level prizing.
While Jenson was crying for open standards and fair competition and when Microsoft finally had Direct3D in working state hailing it as second coming of Jesus!
Soldato
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Aye, but it’ll be you posting it!Ok so when/if amd end up dominating the market and Nvidia are the ones with 20% "mindshare" we can expect to see a similar thread except focusing on just amds business practices later on then
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Yep. If only there was some competition retort. Then my nvidia purchase would be cheaper syndrome.
You also have the sewed mindshare where converts have already got their hand in the wallet for ray tracing or DLSS as "I need this feature". Its pointless debating when the foot is already halfway through the door. I dont understand why folk pretend they are neutral on this brand buying nonsense.
You also have the sewed mindshare where converts have already got their hand in the wallet for ray tracing or DLSS as "I need this feature". Its pointless debating when the foot is already halfway through the door. I dont understand why folk pretend they are neutral on this brand buying nonsense.
So you're saying that if a certain brand offered you a better product for whatever reason, you won't buy because they have a monopoly?
Companies (especially ones worth billions) are not charities, you should be paying the company that has a product which supports your needs/wants, not just because they are the underdog, it is down to that company to do better and make people want their products over the competition, amd just aren't there yet in the gpu space and haven't been for a while imo, RDNA 2 is fantastic but was let down by unicorn stock (no surprise given console was getting 80% of their supply), no UK store for MSRP price, no DLSS competitor, poor RT performance. It is entirely possibly for amd to turn the market as they did with the cpu space but until they have a clearly better product in every way or/and matching nvidia 100%, not just about matching/beating it in certain areas then lacking entirely in other areas, that won't happen.With the last gen, amd did undercut nvidia a bit but as per the above points, for many nvidia was worth the slightly extra cost, not to mention in terms of getting a certain brand for MSRP.
3080 - £650
6800xt - £600
3070 - £450
6800 - £530
6700xt - £420
Forza 5 crashing because lack of vram? Got a link/evidence for that?
Look at the bigger picture, there is maybe a couple of very niche scenarios where vram might be an issue such as VR high res displays, 4k "max" settings with no FSR/DLSS, meanwhile look at how many RT titles there are and which company has had "quality" upscaling tech for the past 2-3 years to further boost the performance, we're talking about tons of RT and dlss games as of now, ranging from indie to triple a, the difference is often very large too in those RT scenarios, even with amds sponsored titles such as riftbreaker, re village/remasters..... essentially nvidias mid to high end tier is matching/beating amds "flagship" in those scenarios.... Of course it all depends on what ones needs/wants are, as evidenced some don't care at all for RT and some have no need/care for more vram but as per your original point, for those who want(ed) RT and a good upscaling solution, there was/is only one choice (with FSR 2.1, that is one advantage of nvidia gone now), that was not nvidias fault but amds fault for not competing by delivering equivalent features/performance and then you wonder why people buy a certain brand....
Yup I agree, people who bought the titans/halo cards are the ones to blame for back in the day as well as favouring nvidia over amd when amd were the clear bang per buck kings but ever since fury x/5700xt, amd have undone that work when they decided they were the premium brand and started charging in the same ballpark as nvidia despite their products being considerably worse in a number of ways.
It's swings and roundabouts when it comes to brands strengths and weaknesses, just look at fury x with it's 4gb vram which was targeting 4k and the 980ti had 6GB, apparently having more vram didn't matter then, now it's hailed as the be all, as you mentioned power consumption being another, then look at g vs free sync amongst other things, guarantee you when/if AMD beat nvidia for RT, all of a sudden the amd fans will be praising it as the next coming and the nvidia fans will be saying it doesn't matter
If AMD match/beat nvidia in RT, I'll be back to amd gpus
AMD have just removed one of the 2 advantages nvidia had for my needs/wants with their update to FSR 2.1.As I posted in another thread, the problem with amd not gaining market share is mainly the below:
Those who value the extra 10-15% performance for 50+% extra cost over the lower end gpu will happily do it, right @TNA
Most likely is just placeholders though, ocuk/gibbo has done the same with previous launches.
Deffo must be placeholders, 4090 should be 1500 max, but more like 1000, as come the next few days, mining ends for gpus, so no reason to be that high even, there predicting 3090 used at 200/400 dollars hitting ebay, there are millions in circulation with no use soon
