Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

jpaul said:
cap has obfuscated that gas price has increased disproportionately versus electricity



people signed up for their smart meters (sucked in by it's green/saving the planet advertising monika) so they do have an idea (if the IHD works)

..
Using less Haven't researched whether average electricity usage has already declined as a result of current CAP, and, that that, played into the govt CAP decision & it's affordability
nonetheless it's our blank check. EU windfall tax on non-gas electricity will re-enforce UK being different.
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The main benefit of a SM is NOT the IHD really, its the online portals where you can see your historic readings broken down.
The IHD whilst somewhat useful for eg monitoring vs a budget are not good for real time readings unless your going to do a bit of a what if type thing, eg turn everything off and turn individual things back on, which can be done far mroe accurately for most things with a direct meter.
They are a handy visual indication, but the real benefit lies on your online account where all the data is there by 30 minute measures. I can see my gas usage and see what was the hot water impact and the gas hob for example.

Eg I looked at yesterday online, I can see my electricity in 48 half hourly splits. It also tells me my busiest time was 3-3.30pm when I (well the other half actually mainly due to washing and dishwasher) used 1.351kWh

However normal rules apply, you can give people as much data as you want. Its what you do with it that makes a difference.
 
silversurfer said:
Would be nice if something this simple worked out, heated sand lasts months they say:
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The physics of all these schemes is undeniable the problems are the capital costs and potentially the impact of making them. At least this idea is for thermal energy storage which is low quality heat and thus quite efficient unlike storing thermal energy for electricity.
 
PlacidCasual said:
The physics of all these schemes is undeniable the problems are the capital costs and potentially the impact of making them. At least this idea is for thermal energy storage which is low quality heat and thus quite efficient unlike storing thermal energy for electricity.
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indeed..... thermal energy to electricity is a none starter... iirc its around 25% efficient in even the most optimistic guess.... where as thermally it is closer to 80%.

thermal only is fine imo. No 1 tech is going to replace fossil fuel burning, thermal batteries can only be 1 piece of the puzzle, but that alone in theory should make a huge cut in the demand for peak time electricity for heating.
 
delta0 said:
The EU approach is a little strange. They are targeting energy producers with the tax but that is likely due to the 80%+ import of fuels as they can’t windfall that. They produce 30% less fuel than the UK does alone so I can see why going after the source where the profits are made is futile but then going after the energy producers is probably just as futile. We do already windfall tax in the UK. They are taxed 65% on profits (there is a 25% profits levy in there that was introduced in the middle of this year).
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I like that fact they are proposing capping electric generated from anything except gas to 18p per kWh wholesale. Will make a massive difference to their electric retail prices.
 
Do we know what % of UK non-gas electricity come from non-CFD sources which would already cap them, it's been discussed that govt could give them lucrative long-term contracts in return for short term price reduction, surreptitious would would accomplish similar end.
Would Norway show any price relaxation on gas prices ... they are meant to be friends to EU and ....us, thanks for all the fish



PlacidCasual said:
The physics of all these schemes is undeniable the problems are the capital costs and potentially the impact of making them.
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maybe - wondered how it compared to green hydrogen,
it seems it is 60% efficient (twice hydrogen) if you use energy quickly, but after 3 months your energy store would be depleted to same efficiency as hydrogen
hmmh water has a higher specific heat capacity, but would need to be pressurised.
 
Seems we are loading in the new SVT prices at the moment and internally we should have sight of the new cap prices after 3:30pm today and the effect it will have on fixed rates. Will update here once i know more
 
@jpaul Hydrogen is probably going to fill a different role. It will be useful for time shifting unreliable renewables from glut periods to drought periods on a one to two week scale. The inefficiency isn't such an issue because we're talking about harvesting surplus energy for use when there is a shortage. But centralised hydrogen storage is an engineering challenge that is only just starting to progress on the scale needed for electricity generation. Also generally the capital costs for large centralised facilities scale better than for decentralised ones especially if any sort of civil works are needed.
 
Those who signed in to Eon's Next Online V19, have you seen this extract from the blog on the Eon site:

Fixed tariff customers.
The government says that customers on a fixed tariff will also receive the same level of price reduction as those on standard variable tariffs, but what they pay is dependent on the rate they fixed at. Customers do not need to contact us, we will be in touch with you shortly as to how the Energy Price Guarantee affects you.

Specifically the part where it states what we will pay is dependent on the rate fixed at. I've fired off an email this morning to Eon to try and obtain more clarity of a situation where we've chosen a new tariff but it isn't yet active and isn't until after October the 1st. Also what will my rates be so I can make a decision prior to the 6th as to whether to change over to SVR. Now it's a waiting game for the reply. As I've said my new tariff doesn't go live until 6th October and thus nothing should change for me on the 1st of October as my current fixed is lower than the cap. But come the 6th I want to be paying no more than 34p/kwh elec and 10.2p/kwh gas.
 
Gixer said:
Those who signed in to Eon's Next Online V19, have you seen this extract from the blog on the Eon site:

Fixed tariff customers.
The government says that customers on a fixed tariff will also receive the same level of price reduction as those on standard variable tariffs, but what they pay is dependent on the rate they fixed at. Customers do not need to contact us, we will be in touch with you shortly as to how the Energy Price Guarantee affects you.

Specifically the part where it states what we will pay is dependent on the rate fixed at. I've fired off an email this morning to Eon to try and obtain more clarity of a situation where we've chosen a new tariff but it isn't yet active and isn't until after October the 1st. Also what will my rates be so I can make a decision prior to the 6th as to whether to change over to SVR. Now it's a waiting game for the reply. As I've said my new tariff doesn't go live until 6th October and thus nothing should change for me on the 1st of October as my current fixed is lower than the cap. But come the 6th I want to be paying no more than 34p/kwh elec and 10.2p/kwh gas.
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This seems to unfairly benefit those on long fixes below the cap (they've not only been paying less than SVR the whole time, but will now pay even less if they get the same level of discount!), and punish those who did the responsible thing of trying to help themselves by fixing recently (e.g. at higher than the October rates, but below the predicted January rates), who are not only paying higher rates now, but will still be paying higher than the SVR, even with the discount.

IMO any fixes should only be reduced to the cap (which may still be the case), and suppliers should be made to allow customers to exit their fixes without having to pay any penalty (wasn't there someone earlier in the thread who had a £150 exit fee?)
 
I don't think Those on lower fixed tariffs will see the same discount. They'll be reduced to the lowest SVR as stated by the government's cap.

What I want to know, as do others, is will Those who have signed into higher fixed tariffs, to start after October 1st, have there unit charges dropped to the cap or only dropped by the rates the government mention in their policy.

I've a reply from eon but they've not understood my question and think I want to change to SVR today, which of course I don't. I've seen on the eon community forum there are people asking similar but there are no definite answers as of yet.

I am lucky, there is zero exit fee for me.
 
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

EU To Bring In Windfall Tax On Energy Firms' 'Extraordinary Profits'

Liz Truss has ruled out bringing in a further levy in the UK.
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

So EU going for windfall tax rather than taxpayers footing the bill.

Think below says it all

Ursula Von der Leyen, the European Commission president, said it was “wrong” for companies to make “extraordinary” profits on the back of consumers and the war in Ukraine.
 
SmokeKingGun said:
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

EU To Bring In Windfall Tax On Energy Firms' 'Extraordinary Profits'

Liz Truss has ruled out bringing in a further levy in the UK.
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

So EU going for windfall tax rather than taxpayers footing the bill.

Think below says it all

Ursula Von der Leyen, the European Commission president, said it was “wrong” for companies to make “extraordinary” profits on the back of consumers and the war in Ukraine.
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As mentioned above we already have a windfall/levy. We are taxing them 65%! Plus we are taxing the source of rather than the energy producers. The energy producers aren’t making much profit unless they are producing electricity from something other than gas and that’s being decoupled.
 
SmokeKingGun said:
Ursula Von der Leyen, the European Commission president, said it was “wrong” for companies to make “extraordinary” profits on the back of consumers and the war in Ukraine.
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Good job we got out of Europe so we don't have to deal with this socialist nonsense - glad we get the chance to be the government back profit centre for the oil and gas giants :)

delta0 said:
As mentioned above we already have a windfall/levy. We are taxing them 65%! Plus we are taxing the source of rather than the energy producers. The energy producers aren’t making much profit unless they are producing electricity from something other than gas and that’s being decoupled.
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"Under the draft plan, oil, gas, coal and refining firms would be required to make a “solidarity contribution” of 33 per cent of their taxable surplus profits from 2022."

its not targeted at the energy producers (who are still making record profits), but the step up the chain who are making silly money.
 
Siliconslave said:
Good job we got out of Europe so we don't have to deal with this socialist nonsense - glad we get the chance to be the government back profit centre for the oil and gas giants :)


"Under the draft plan, oil, gas, coal and refining firms would be required to make a “solidarity contribution” of 33 per cent of their taxable surplus profits from 2022."
its not targeted at the energy producers, but the step up the chain who are making silly money on this...
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That’s an industry that’s 30% smaller than the entire UK industry. It doesn’t apply to imports.
 
Why are there still so many question marks over what the hell is happening with energy prices, just over 2 weeks to go and people still have no idea what their fixed deals will become, or whether to move to SVR.
 
Greebo said:
I like that fact they are proposing capping electric generated from anything except gas to 18p per kWh wholesale. Will make a massive difference to their electric retail prices.
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Thats a kind of promotion for alternatives, probably should have been done years ago to encourage growth outside carbon use etc.
 
Alex_6n2 said:
Please explain how it is greed? Who is being greedy in this scenario?
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"
Saudi Arabia's Aramco posted record profits between April to June, while BP cleared £6.9bn in that period and Shell topped that with its profits of £9bn worldwide.
Centrica, the parent company of British Gas, has seen profits rise five-fold due to its oil, gas and nuclear assets.
...
But there are many firms operating in the UK which get less attention. Among the biggest of the North Sea producers is Harbour Energy. The company has grown by acquiring oil and gas operations and returned to profit this year.
Meanwhile, private-equity backed Neptune Energy, which produces around 12% of UK's gas saw profits double last year, allowing for $1bn in dividends to be returned to its owners.
"
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