Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[Haggisman]

So the missing "up to" is now added to the government fact sheet, floor set to the rate of the EPG.

Interestingly the government has also said if people want to change tariffs its between them and the supplier, so things like exit fees might still remain, its confirmed that the subsidy may not be enough to get the most expensive fixes down to EPG level.

Martin has also tweeted the government has apparently only committed to 3 month contracts with the suppliers although the 2 year committal to consumers stands.

Colour me surprised that the implementation of this is likely to be an utter shambles that we all get the privilege of paying for for the next few decades

Reading some further details on MSE:

"Today in the energy summit at MSE Towers with the big firms' CEOs, all firms there - Brit Gas, Ovo (SSE), Octopus, EDF, E.on, Shell - agreed to my request that customers who end up on fixes at a higher rate than the price guarantee WILL be allowed to move on to that firm's price guarantee tariff, with no early exit penalties, until at least 15 Nov (some beyond that). Note Scottish Power chooses not to attend the summits."

 

[chrcoluk]

You're attempting to apply a philosophical idea of motivation to a free market made up of 100s of thousands of people. Pretty stupid.



Arguing energy is a human right is a fair position, but unless the UK is able to increase its national production to meet national demand (Hint - this requires investment (profit..)) it will continue to be a balance of global supply/demand

Similarly, if the UK did go totally independent and capped its prices to remove profit we could then argue philosophically about providing some of that energy to other places in the world that need it (but at what price?!?! Hint - free market). Equally people and companies in the UK would respond to low energy prices by using more. Thus creating a runaway of demand pushing us back into a need for buying from elsewhere (there is a max UK energy production level)

Without increasing prices, people wouldn't be prompted to reduce their demand or shift their dependencies (e.g. get solar PV on your roof)

A (Correctly regulated) free market is the best way, on balance, to create a fair system.

No one cared when Oil/Gas companies lost Billions and racked up debt in 2020. You only care now because it's costing you money. Everything comes at a price. Use less &/or upskill to get a better job....

I mean you seem stuck in some ideology that an essential product will lower in demand, but as proven by the EPG (and other countries), if prices are high enough to reduce affordability excessively then the government simply steps in to make it affordable and as such maintain demand.

I would say you would have a point if we talking about TV's, PCs or holidays, but we talking about an essential service.

 

[Siliconslave]

Everything comes at a price. Use less &/or upskill to get a better job....

(taking this as a general suggestion) - its just not viable for everyone to reduce usage to an affordable level as it effects everything, vital or not. We already had rampant fuel poverty before these hikes & people going without.

Suggesting people upskill is, to be honest, ridiculous and laughable.

No one cared when Oil/Gas companies lost Billions and racked up debt in 2020.

I fondly remember when we were getting even slightly reduced heating oil and fuels as the cost of oil when into the negative

 

[Alex_6n2]

Suggesting people upskill is, to be honest, ridiculous and laughable.

You don't think people should seek to improve their knowledge/skills and benefit from improved income as a result?

What a weird point of view. "Stay in your box stupid poor person"

 

[Siliconslave]

You don't think people should seek to improve their knowledge/skills and benefit from improved income as a result?

What a weird point of view. "Stay in your box stupid poor person"

Beautifully straw-manned.

Everyone working a full time job should be able to afford a reasonable living standard, including heating their home. Jobs that are traditionally thought of as 'un-skilled' shouldn't be paid below a living wage as some perverted inspiration to up skill and get a better job.

 

[Alex_6n2]

I mean you seem stuck in some ideology that an essential product will lower in demand, but as proven by the EPG (and other countries), if prices are high enough to reduce affordability excessively then the government simply steps in to make it affordable and as such maintain demand.

Sorry but this is an overt simplification

A key reason for the energy price cap is political pressure. It's still an anti free-market principle

YoY demand for Gas and electricity has dropped across Europe, which ultimately is a good thing (environmental win etc)

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Beautifully straw-manned.

Everyone working a full time job should be able to afford a reasonable living standard, including heating their home. Jobs that are traditionally thought of as 'un-skilled' shouldn't be paid below a living wage as some perverted inspiration to up skill and get a better job.

Problem is, what is a reasonable living standard. Ask 100 people to define that to a semi detailed level and you would have 100 different opinions.
No different to the arguments about comfortable and what being comfortable should be expressed as.

Now if we wanted to define this at a national level, and maybe include some rights to that it would be a very interesting political and social project for sure.
My suspicion is all those people who say you dont need heating etc would somewhat change their mind if it was a guaranteed right

 

[Haggisman]

You don't think people should seek to improve their knowledge/skills and benefit from improved income as a result?

What a weird point of view. "Stay in your box stupid poor person"

That works on an individual level, but not for everyone, for 2 reasons:

a) not everyone is capable of doing so
b) in the hypothetical situation where everyone upskills, you're simply creating a new baseline - there aren't enough "upskilled" jobs to go around, so you still end up in the same scenario where someone has to do the shelf-stacking, street-sweeping and tea-making jobs which don't get paid enough.

 

[Alex_6n2]

That works on an individual level, but not for everyone, for 2 reasons:

a) not everyone is capable of doing so
b) in the hypothetical situation where everyone upskills, you're simply creating a new baseline - there aren't enough "upskilled" jobs to go around, so you still end up in the same scenario where someone has to do the shelf-stacking, street-sweeping and tea-making jobs which don't get paid enough.

I agree in principle

a) That's why we have social security - making sure this rises sufficiently to cover living costs is a separate subject, but I agree this should happen
b) My position is that upskilling a workforce doesn't have to result in a race to the bottom. Give the tea-making jobs to robots and use the extra skills of the workforce to drive change/improvement in the national economic output

 

[HungryHippos]

My position is that upskilling a workforce doesn't have to result in a race to the bottom. Give the tea-making jobs to robots and use the extra skills of the workforce to drive change/improvement in the national economic output

I would love a tea making robot!

 

[chrcoluk]

That works on an individual level, but not for everyone, for 2 reasons:

a) not everyone is capable of doing so
b) in the hypothetical situation where everyone upskills, you're simply creating a new baseline - there aren't enough "upskilled" jobs to go around, so you still end up in the same scenario where someone has to do the shelf-stacking, street-sweeping and tea-making jobs which don't get paid enough.

Got the dude on ignore already, but can tell from your replies he is in his own little bubble detached from the real world.

 

[rG-tom]

To be fair, yours is pretty excessive.

My gas usage is ~ 7kWh / day for a family of four over the summer too. I'm guessing its an old boiler, a poorly / old insulated tank or a combination of both

It's this:

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See model details, efficiency, warranty, installation cost and prices. Get free quotes to fit a Worcester Bosch Greenstar 30CDi Classic System Gas Boiler today.

www.boilerguide.co.uk

I know nothing about boilers but was told that it's actually quite decent and not worth replacing. Serviced regularly etc. 13 years old so whilst not mega new it's not ancient. Maybe I need to reduce the amount of time it's on for/reduce temperatures?

 

[Puzzled]

Got the dude on ignore already, but can tell from your replies he is in his own little bubble detached from the real world.

You'd think covid would have taught people who it is that really keeps this country running. If a low wage full time worker can't even afford the basics anymore and those workers decide to take industrial action then everything comes to a stop.

Even the Tories acknowledge that hence stepping in with the price cap.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

You'd think covid would have taught people who it is that really keeps this country running. If a low wage full time worker can't even afford the basics anymore and those workers decide to take industrial action then everything comes to a stop.

Even the Tories acknowledge that hence stepping in with the price cap.

This is true but somewhat isolated in view.
Typically the closer to the coal face someone is the more immediate the impact of their withdrawl, but the more senior a person is the more that without them the entity turns into a leaderless mess.

 

[Zenduri]

Derp, we tried loading in the new ofgem prices for everyone last night and it's broke and not working, now IT are scrambling to try and find the fault. If anyone is with EONNext, dont call or email about gov cap prices at the moment. Save yourselves and us some time

 

[Gixer]

Derp, we tried loading in the new ofgem prices for everyone last night and it's broke and not working, now IT are scrambling to try and find the fault. If anyone is with EONNext, dont call or email about gov cap prices at the moment. Save yourselves and us some time

Email was sent at 06:00 today. Not expecting a quick reply though yesterday I did receive a reply quickly, just not answering with the correct info.

Good luck to your IT folk!

 

[Zenduri]

Updated from the gov website re the cap



So my original comment from before stands in the "scenarios"

Zenduri said:

See below scenarios

1) You are on current SVT
You will move to the new SVT of 34p elec and 10.3p gas as default

2) You fixed at 44p elec and 11.3 gas
You will see your fixed prices be reduced to 34p elec and 10.3p gas

3) You fixed at 68p elec and 16p gas
Your fixed rates will be reduced by 17p Elec and 4.2 gas and your NEW rates would be 51p elec and 11.8 gas which is above the Gov cap

4) You fixed and 1 of your rates, either offpeak elec or gas is lower than the gov cap but the onpeak or elec is higher
This is unclear and i've seen no information regarding what happens here but it would be reasonable to assume a 50/50 chance the higher rate would drop to whatever the cap price is.

There is no info from any supplier that i know of at the moment or the Gov as to whats going to happen for E7 electric customers.

If you are fixed and you fall into scenario 3 it would be beneficial to exit your fixed price if you have low or no exit fees and go onto the Gov cap. However i would wait to see what your supplier communicates to you first re the rates you would be on and your options and i would refrain from taking action until you see the revised prices/receive comms from your supplier

 

[HungryHippos]

Point 3) seems silly I don't know why they don't just handle that in the same way as 2).

 

[Zenduri]

Point 3) seems silly I don't know why they don't just handle that in the same way as 2).

The original message suppliers were getting was that they were just going to reduce everyone down to the cap, but then it changed because i expect ti would cost more

 

[Haggisman]

I love the comment "this will ensure that a fair price is paid by everyone". No. In effect what it ensures is that people who didn't trust the useless **** in power to actually do anything useful get penalised for having the sense audacity to try and protect themselves from further increases by fixing at a higher rate.