Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Devilman said:
If the west really wanted to, they could stop Russia in a week, maybe less.

"Declared all out war" really doesn't mean much when they were already at war, just hiding under the guise of a "Special Military Operation"

If we take what we have already seen of their efforts that has cost them a potential 50,000 Troops already and multiply that by 6 for the 300k he's now talking about, I still don't see them having any chance of success provided the West keep up it's supply of equipment, munitions, intelligence and training.
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The west can’t stop hI’m he has the ultimate deterrent and not afraid to use it . We keep funding this war the Outcome for everyone is not good.
 
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sniperone said:
Polands military could fight of Russia on its own they would not need funding from the outside
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Do you not see how your stance is just a big green light to egotistical dictators and populists to take a shot at invading their neighbours if they see an advantage (as Russia did?). It facilitates empire building and requires massive military buildups from every country in order to defend themselves.

Intervention to help invaded countries defend themselves and sanctions to remove economic support from aggressive nations incentivises stability and peace.

Time and time again we've seen that passive appeasement doesn't work.

Not to mention a moral case for helping a nation being victimised by its neighbour avoid an uncertain fate at the hands of a murderous repressive invader.
 
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200sols said:
Why are France, Italy and even Germany doing so little to help? IMO the EU picture flatters them when its really the smaller economies bearing the brunt.
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Because politicians were heavily bribed for the last 20 years more or less. Look, macron keeps calling his mate. Absolute disgrace of the person. All he cares is how to look good on a camera.
 
SPG said:
Ok and the consequences of that are.....

Russian control of EU GAS and world market
Russian control of worldwide Grain market.

Russia is not or will ever be our friend until the numpty`s who still think the IRON curtain are all dead and buried.

We are doing the right thing (for a change) so deal with it or pack off and go live in Moscow.
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We did the right thing in Iraq and Syria that turned out well for the people living there.
 
200sols said:
Why are France, Italy and even Germany doing so little to help? IMO the EU picture flatters them when its really the smaller economies bearing the brunt.
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I think there's a lot more concern about escalation among these nations. The UK and US see defeating Russia as the goal, Poland and the other nations neighbouring Russia see proving to Russia that they cannot simply roll into the former USSR as the goal, Germany and I think France see the primary goal as ensuring that this does not escalate into a wider conflict and making sure, in particular, that they are not responsible if there is.

Personally, I'd like Germany to go further, and I would have expected France - with it's comparatively mighty military - to have done more, but once the collective EU contribution is taken into account these countries aren't doing "so little" to help. A bit less than the UK, but not that much, although less focused on military aid.
 
Mr Jack said:
I think there's a lot more concern about escalation among these nations. The UK and US see defeating Russia as the goal, Poland and the other nations neighbouring Russia see proving to Russia that they cannot simply roll into the former USSR as the goal, Germany and I think France see the primary goal as ensuring that this does not escalate into a wider conflict and making sure, in particular, that they are not responsible if there is.

Personally, I'd like Germany to go further, and I would have expected France - with it's comparatively mighty military - to have done more, but once the collective EU contribution is taken into account these countries aren't doing "so little" to help. A bit less than the UK, but not that much, although less focused on military aid.
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French are cowards and Germany are in bed with putin for his gas reserves.
 
sniperone said:
The west can’t stop hI’m he has the ultimate deterrent and not afraid to use it . We keep funding this war the Outcome for everyone is not good.
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On the contrary, what's been demonstrated so far is that the Russian military can be stopped.

Tactical nukes might mean some recalculations are needed, but would still be terrible to give Putin what he wants - again it would just send a message that 'if you threaten us with nukes then we' ll do whatever you want'.

If he were to successfully get strategic nukes launched (have to hope his regime would implode before then) that would be a whole new level of badness, but unless we just want to all give up and become part of a Russian empire rolling over to do what he wants on the basis of a threat is just not a viable option.
 
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sniperone said:
And risk all out war .Vlad told us at the very beginning not to interfere and now he’s backed into A corner and things are going to get very very bad . People are struggling to live in this country and we are funding a war that has nothing to do with us and no matter what we do nothing is going to change . Russia will either take Ukraine or completely destroy it ,that’s the long term outlook .
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If he threatened to nuke the UK unless we became a vassal of Russia what would you say we do?

This is becoming more of a fight for freedom and democracy than it is just Ukraine itself, you can't just sit there and let the despots do what they feel like, you have to make a stand or they'll just walk all over you.

Threatening nukes to get what you want is not behavior we should be encouraging or rewarding.
 
HungryHippos said:
If he threatened to nuke the UK unless we became a vassal of Russia what would you say we do?

This is becoming more of a fight for freedom and democracy than it is just Ukraine itself, you can't just sit there and let the despots do what they feel like, you have to make a stand or they'll just walk all over you.

Threatening nukes to get what you want is not behavior we should be encouraging or rewarding.
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We are a country on its knees financially and funding a war that has absolutely nothing to do with us.

Nothing short of nuclear war is going to stop putin unfortunately
 
SPG said:
Ok and the consequences of that are.....

Russian control of EU GAS and world market
Russian control of worldwide Grain market.

Russia is not or will ever be our friend until the numpty`s who still think the IRON curtain are all dead and buried.

We are doing the right thing (for a change) so deal with it or pack off and go live in Moscow.
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The iron curtain is much alive, the strategy has changed, and the problem is the east gave up the surprise too early.
 
sniperone said:
We are a country on its knees financially and funding a war that has absolutely nothing to do with us.

Nothing short of nuclear war is going to stop putin unfortunately
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No, you ring fence Russia, and refuse to trade. Why did you think there has been a push for alternative energy over the past 10 years.
 
sniperone said:
We are a country on its knees financially and funding a war that has absolutely nothing to do with us.

Nothing short of nuclear war is going to stop putin unfortunately
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So what would you suggest? He won't stop at Ukraine. He'll strip Eastern Europe slowly and the conflict will end up being delayed but vastly bigger in scale.
 
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sniperone said:
We did the right thing in Iraq and Syria that turned out well for the people living there.
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Pretty damn irrelevant to this conflict, you would not find many here supporting war in Iraq or Syria. This is just the kind of thing people say to distract or deflect from the current situation with Ukraine.

For once this is a conflict for the right reasons, and we need to keep on supporting Ukraine until Russia has grown tired of losing, they can't win whilst we do, so we force them to escalate or step down, and with escalation comes counter-escalation.

We have the nukes they have, we're just not stupid enough to constantly threaten to use them to get what we want.
 
sniperone said:
We are a country on its knees financially and funding a war that has absolutely nothing to do with us.

Nothing short of nuclear war is going to stop putin unfortunately
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It is bigger than that due to the domino effect of Russia pushing.

This article, although from January, is even more valid.

We also have a legal obligation as mentioned in the article.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ukraine crisis: What’s at stake for the UK?

From the disruption of gas supplies to the risk of broader war, the Ukraine crisis matters to the UK.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
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