Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Richie said:
You might need to look at your maths there and use the info I supplied rather than a quick Google for average.

I'll use the current, generally considered high, cost of electricity just now

1100 kWh / 365 is a little over 3 kWh/day.
1100 kWh x £0.5/ kWh is £550/year.

A solar install with battery to store around 5 kWh is around £15,000 fully installed.

£15,000 / £550 = 27 years.

That seem a good reason for me to get solar and battery?


Even if we go balls out on the quote and cost of grid Elec over the next few years:

Solar with Battery - £10,000 installed.
Elec cost/year at 1100 kWh - £650 (20% increase on current high kWh cost)

£10,000/£650 = 15.3 years.

If the cost of electricity goes down from the current historical highs then it will be longer.

Still worth it?
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You wouldn't spend £15k for a solar install for that little elec use.
Mine cost £11k for 4 times that household elec use -and it also saves me £50 a month on gas to heat water.

Sure, solar costs have gone up a little since earlier this year - but you are over sizing and over pricing that setup; either accidently through lack of knowledge, or deliberately to make your argument against solar look better.
 
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keyser van someone said:
How much is 10 years of petrol again? ;)
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OK so your plan is to have everyone... what? Walk to work for 10 years to save the petrol costs so they can finally buy an EV? Does that sound even remotely practical to you?

The vast majority of those who are struggling the most do not have an EV, cannot afford an EV and need their vehicle either for work, or to commute to work.

Another issue is one of our consumption rate of lithium being unsustainable - We'll end up with "The Lithium Crisis" instead then :D
 
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Even 10 years payback is too long for your average homebuyer. People with mortgages on average stayed in their property for 8.7 years in 2020/2021. It works better for people that are basically established in the property ladder, not looking to upsize and essentially outright own their homes. So your older demographic instead of first or second home buyers.
 
Devilman said:
But...But... You can use the EV instead of a battery, you just need to buy an EV ;) ... Oh wait, how expensive are those again? :D
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Really :rolleyes:
You can also use the EV for transport :p, for free if you have solar and travel about 200 miles per week. Also, most people with EV's right now would be spending about the same amount per month on a car anyway - be it EV, petrol or diesel, so there is not extra cost having one.
 
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SDK^ said:
Really :rolleyes:
You can also use the EV for transport :p, for free if you have solar and travel about 200 miles per week. Also, most people with EV's right now would be spending about the same amount per month on a car anyway - be it EV, petrol or diesel, so there is not extra cost having one.
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Yes you can use the EV for transport... IF you can afford to buy one... which the majority of people who are struggling the most cannot even dream of doing...

It's all well and good for people to just pretend like most people already have EV's to use in place of their current liquid-fueled vehicle but the vast majority do not and a great many of them cannot afford to upgrade to one either.

It's literally turning around to people who are struggling to choose between food or heat and saying "well, you just need to buy a solar setup and a 20K EV and you'll be fine!"
 
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keyser van someone said:
I drive behind an electric bus that must have been charged at Yardley Wood bus depot going to Solihull most mornings. EV buses are already here.
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I wonder if the EV busses have regenerative braking? It would make sense with all that stop/start, but I have no idea on their design / construction in that regard.
 
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SDK^ said:
You wouldn't spend £15k for a solar install for that little elec use.
Mine cost £11k for 4 times that household elec use -and it also saves me £50 a month on gas to heat water.

Sure, solar costs have gone up a little since earlier this year - but you are over sizing and over pricing that setup; either accidently through lack of knowledge, or deliberately to make your argument against solar look better.
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You're right, I priced it up wrong but not for arguments purposes, more ignorance... Bear in mind that was also for battery install of 5kwh.

See below here for better comparison


keyser van someone said:
countered :)

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels/ - ~11 years

https://youtu.be/4BUUQLsFSmY - ~10 years

I think the price of solar installs have gone up a bit, but that's more inline with everything as gone up a bit, pound is weak etc, since electric prices have also gone up then solar makes even more sense imo.

It's a lot of money of sure, I'm totally sold on the idea but circumstances/life I can't afford it either at the moment so just want to put that out there. I don't have my own drive way. Ideally you need a south facing roof and drive way for a car and then you're set. Of course home insulation yada yada.
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Ok, I'll play :)

Thanks for the Moneysaving Expert link. You'll note that, on that page, there is a link to a solar install calculator which takes into account your location in the UK using postcode, shading, roof pitch and roof direction so likely quite accurate.

Based on my usage, location, standard roof pitch, zero shading and South Facing roof (bolded bits to show I have optimum conditions for an install), it showed the following result:

Screenshot-20220925-103930.png


Their assumptions are:

The "Lifetime Benefit" that they use is a 25 year period.
Elec is 28p/kWh.

System is sized to a little over my usage of 1100 kWh (see bottom right number on image)


The initial cost is a LOSS of £1,800 but if I use the same current 50p/kWh calculations as my initial post rather than the assumed 28p/kwh it will be:

0.50 - 0.28 = 0.22 (difference)
0.22 x 1100 = £242
£1,800 - £242 = £1,558

So on a solar install only basis, I would LOSE £1,558 over 25 years {mainly from exporting to grid as out of home during the day)

If we add in a battery which, from quick Google of costs for circa 5 kWh kits, then it would be different as I wouldn't be losing all that electricity to the grid when I am not home.

Solar install and maintenance - £4800
Battery Supply and Install - £4000
Total - £8,800

£8,800/£550 (1100 x £0.50/kWh) = 15.5 years.

This assumes I generate enough in Winter to run the house for that full day i.e. no grid usage ever so it may actually take longer.

Still think it's worth it?
 
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Richie said:
You might need to look at your maths there and use the info I supplied rather than a quick Google for average.

I'll use the current, generally considered high, cost of electricity just now

1100 kWh / 365 is a little over 3 kWh/day.
1100 kWh x £0.5/ kWh is £550/year.

A solar install with battery to store around 5 kWh is around £15,000 fully installed.

£15,000 / £550 = 27 years.

That seem a good reason for me to get solar and battery?


Even if we go balls out on the quote and cost of grid Elec over the next few years:

Solar with Battery - £10,000 installed.
Elec cost/year at 1100 kWh - £650 (20% increase on current high kWh cost)

£10,000/£650 = 15.3 years.

If the cost of electricity goes down from the current historical highs then it will be longer.

Still worth it?
Click to expand...

You don't use enough to make solar worth it, the numbers have to be run for your individual circumstances but I reckon you will only really start getting efficency if you use more like 4000+ kwh per year.

At 1100 kwh for the year, the price changes for electric aren't really going to cost you significantly.

Solar won't free you from standing charges or directly replace gas heating without making other changes.
 
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Has anyone had anything from eonnext? My fix is due to start from 1st Oct at a higher rate and all they seem to have done is deducted the £66 from the dd amount - do they really think I won’t notice that I’m paying too much..
 
HungryHippos said:
You don't use enough to make solar worth it, the numbers have to be run for your individual circumstances but I reckon you will only really start getting efficency if you use more like 4000+ kwh per year.

At 1100 kwh for the year, the price changes for electric aren't really going to cost you significantly.

Solar won't free you from standing charges or directly replace gad heating without making other changes.
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Yeah I spent some time just now writing a post just moments before this post :cry: .

It took so long to write it on a mobile phone to make sure it formatted correct (I still can't figure out bullet lists on this new forum):o
 
n111ck said:
Has anyone had anything from eonnext? My fix is due to start from 1st Oct at a higher rate and all they seem to have done is deducted the £66 from the dd amount - do they really think I won’t notice that I’m paying too much..
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Adjust it yourself... You have to login to the website though, I can't seem to see how to do it on the app.

Choose payments and then adjust payment amount/date.

It will tell you what they recommend and you can adjust to 10% max lower than this.
 
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Richie said:
Yeah I spent some time just now writing a post just moments before this post :cry: .

It took so long to write it on a mobile phone to make sure it formatted correct (I still can't figure out bullet lists on this new forum):o
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Solar works really well but you need to have the right figures in place, I could tell before you even calculated it that your numbers wouldn't add up.

There are fixed costs, even getting them to bother to come out, add scaffold, apply for DNO, add inverter, cable it all up etc.

To make the install efficient it makes sense to add a lot of panels on the roof at the same time, spreads costs across more panels, and further to use a lot of power from the system as selling it to grid doesn't pay that well.

Best payment for generation is Octopus outgoing, the fixed one is 15p/kwh, agile may vary, but even then it can take a while to get a decent payback time.
 
Richie said:
You and me both but some people want it in black and white or it can't be correct ;)
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I will say there are some people that have done basic DIY ones that come in way cheaper, but not usually installed on house roof.

Think there was someone who put some panels in their garden, and @Ron-ski is currently adding some to their garage roof.

Those kinds of systems would potentially scale better even for low usage, as you can scale the work up and down without involving too many pros who only want bigger jobs.
 
HungryHippos said:
I will say there are some people that have done basic DIY ones that come in way cheaper, but not usually installed on house roof.

Think there was someone who put some panels in their garden, and @Ron-ski is currently adding some to their garage roof.

Those kinds of systems would potentially scale better even for low usage, as you can scale the work up and down without involving too many pros who only want bigger jobs.
Click to expand...

That would be me :)

Few panels in the garden, DIY battery 7kw, (be 14kW in a month)

Last 6 months electric cost an average of under £3.50 a month just for the electric used. (Standing charge not included)
The electric I have used from the grid is all in the cheap rate window for the immersion hot water heater.

Edit to change pic as it's been posted on this thread before

wM1qbbfh.jpg
 
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