Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Gypo]

Looks like RU are setting up their next defensive line at Милове (Mylove) 20km south of Dudchany, where they can try to block or blow up part of the bridge to slow AFU progress.

After that it's another bridge at Novokairy and then onto several towns and villages on the road to the more populated coastal towns on the Dnipro.

AFU might decide to halt their advanced south and cut north eastwards to cut off RU and encircle them.

 

[Turn]

*Ukraine's Zelenskiy: Army's Advances Continue, New Population Centres Liberated Today In Several Regions, Offers No Details

 

[Uther]

I'm quite stunned at the scale of the Russian collapse, they seem to just have nothing left and are getting wrecked.

 

[Hagar]

The Baltic Nations' position looks like moral cowardice to me:

"A refusal to fulfil one’s civic duty in Russia or a desire to do so does not constitute sufficient grounds for being granted asylum in another country", Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Reinsalu

Since when is it 'one's civic duty' to shoot, wound and kill Ukrainian civilians or bomb their homes/businesses etc? Conflating mandatory national service during peacetime (still used in many sensible EU countries) with mobilisation for an offensive war in a de facto dictatorship run by a paranoid psychopath is pretty craven!

Instead of dehumanising all Russians perhaps we should be trying to help those of them that are opposed to the war/Putin's regime. I mean can Estonia etc not see any merit in a Russian who refuses to be forced into the Army to invade a peaceful neighbouring country? (Obviously, having prima facie evidence that they formally refused to engage in fighting the Ukraine war and were looking at prison time would make the case more simple, but it would be impractical to obtain in most cases.)

The Baltic states have a particular problem with their Russian minorities. They have been prone to supporting Russia and destabilising the countries politics. That is why Russian war memorials and statues have been taken down.

I do not blame them not wanting large numbers of Russian men as so called refugees within their borders.

 

[Kot]

1 Russian escaping mobilisation is 1 less to fight and will save lives on both sides the more that can escape the less that can be mobilised---its a no brainer

 

[Kot]

The Baltic states have a particular problem with their Russian minorities. They have been prone to supporting Russia and destabilising the countries politics. That is why Russian war memorials and statues have been taken down.

I do not blame them not wanting large numbers of Russian men as so called refugees within their borders.

Better you research this point before engaging keyboard

 

[Hagar]

Better you research this point before engaging keyboard

Estonia removes Soviet-era tank monument amid Russia tensions

Monument taken down in city of Narva, while Finland says it will cut tourist visas for Russians by 90%

www.theguardian.com

Estonia begins removing Soviet-era war monuments

The government says it wants to remove a source of tension after Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

www.bbc.co.uk

BOGOF.

 

[NickK]

1 Russian escaping mobilisation is 1 less to fight and will save lives on both sides the more that can escape the less that can be mobilised---its a no brainer

However the FSB know the psyche of displaced russians and by diluting the population they seek to increase influence and if that doesn't work they threaten family or blackmail.
What the closed states are doing is trying to get the russian people to standup for themselves.

 

[dowie]

Since when is it 'one's civic duty' to shoot, wound and kill Ukrainian civilians or bomb their homes/businesses etc? Conflating mandatory national service during peacetime (still used in many sensible EU countries) with mobilisation for an offensive war in a de facto dictatorship run by a paranoid psychopath is pretty craven!

It's separate though, you're conflating the war being a bad thing (which I think we all agree on) with automatically granting asylum to draft dodgers. We know the war is a bad thing, lots of wars are bad, a mobilised or conscripted soldier doesn't just get to claim asylum on that basis.

That's just the practical reality of it, I'm not talking about what "should be" the case but rather what is the case. They need to demonstrate something more than that, most countries will punish deserters or soldiers going AWOL etc.. too so that isn't necessarily going to be a reason for automatic acceptance either.

Another practical aspect is the security concerns of having many Russians in your country, they're not all necessarily opposed to the war rather they're dodging having to participate in it.

They will have to demonstrate something more in some countries if they want asylum, a history of anti-regime social media posts would be an obvious one.

 

[Quartz]

I see this as a huge issue. If Putin was to fall, be it standing down, a Coup, assassination or whatever. I am not aware of any moderates who could step in and de-escalate. He has surrounded himself with so many hardliners there is a strong possibility that who ever replaces him could be worse.

I refer you to the ousting of Khrushchev, noted near-warmonger.

 

[Caracus2k]

Better you research this point before engaging keyboard

It's entirely reasonable to reject fighting age males from a belligerent neighbouring country.

Remember a lot of these men would have been amongst those cheering for their country earlier in the invasion when the consensus was that Russsia would steamroll Ukraine.

A lot of them are not conscientious objectors but hypocritical cowards who supported the naked aggression of their country right up until their backsides were on the line.

They should be refused entry.

 

[Uther]

I doubt many bordering countries would want a large Russian enclave in their borders that might decide they want to be part of Russia in a few decades. Some people play the long game...

 

[GreatAuk]

I think the 'right' thing to do is to let the Russians fleeing conscription in, but at the same time I can see why doing so would be a security threat, and might also be very unpopular domestically in the Baltic status particularly.

Also worth considering that many of those fleeing will have quite Pro-Russian-Empire views, it's just that they don't want to fight for it.

Might also be a medium-term argument that the more dissatisfied people who are kept in Russia and forced to lie in the bed the regime makes for them, the greater the reservoir of protestors / revolutionaries if conditions become favorable for regime change some months / years down the line...

 

[Kot]

Estonia removes Soviet-era tank monument amid Russia tensions

Monument taken down in city of Narva, while Finland says it will cut tourist visas for Russians by 90%

www.theguardian.com

Estonia begins removing Soviet-era war monuments

The government says it wants to remove a source of tension after Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

www.bbc.co.uk

BOGOF.

Cool you show us links to memorials of the sacrifice of fallen soldiers in WW2, yes of course they were then Soviet satellites under communist rule, it matters at that time, Russia was an alley. A memorial is just that a memorial. They were not removed before the Ukraine war and 40% (not a minority in any way) of Latvian (with russian roots) these citizens would have course complain. Only when the Latvian Government decided to remove them, more than 50% of people were outspoken--so would you, if the Tomb of the unknown soldier was torn down or the epitaph !!!. This war has destroyed many families many mixed marriages, people half Russian- half Ukraine- half Latvian etc etc again read up on the history and maybe you will learn something

 

[Malevolence]

I think the 'right' thing to do is to let the Russians fleeing conscription in

No, the right thing to do is bar them from entering and let Russia deal with them. They were perfectly content to go about their lives knowing that their military had invaded a sovereign country and Ukrainians were being raped, butchered and murdered by their uniformed thugs but then the moment **** gets real they panic and suddenly turn into pacifists.

To paraphrase Metallica, '**** 'em all and ******* no regrets'.

 

[Efour]

I agree dont let them in. It'll take time but eventually there will be a coup.

 

[GreatAuk]

No, the right thing to do is bar them from entering and let Russia deal with them. They were perfectly content to go about their lives knowing that their military had invaded a sovereign country and Ukrainians were being raped, butchered and murdered by their uniformed thugs but then the moment **** gets real they panic and suddenly turn into pacifists.

To paraphrase Metallica, '**** 'em all and ******* no regrets'.

I say that because of the real risks to their person if they stay in Russia - they will either be arrested and sent to a brutal prison or sent to a deadly and unjust war if they stay in the country. I don't see how that is 'right' at an individual level. It's hard to know what individuals thought about the war (and what they knew), but either way they are allowed to change their minds, and victims don't have to be perfect to be vulnerable...

There are lots of real practical and political reasons I can think of that letting them in might be a bad idea, but on an individual level I really disagree tbh.

 

[Uther]

It's a war, and unfortunately for them they are on the wrong side. It's not exactly fair but none of this is.

 

[Freddie1980]

I think the 'right' thing to do is to let the Russians fleeing conscription in, but at the same time I can see why doing so would be a security threat, and might also be very unpopular domestically in the Baltic status particularly.

Also worth considering that many of those fleeing will have quite Pro-Russian-Empire views, it's just that they don't want to fight for it.

Might also be a medium-term argument that the more dissatisfied people who are kept in Russia and forced to lie in the bed the regime makes for them, the greater the reservoir of protestors / revolutionaries if conditions become favorable for regime change some months / years down the line...

F'em bloody cowards. Just remember their running away from conscription for the country they live not because their backwards country is raping and killing it's neighbours.

Why is women in Iran and Dagastan will stand up to the authorities yet young, fit, Russian men will keep their mouths shut and runaway the moment politics suddenly becomes interested in them?

 

[GreatAuk]

Cool you show us links to memorials of the sacrifice of fallen soldiers in WW2, yes of course they were then Soviet satellites under communist rule, it matters at that time, Russia was an alley. A memorial is just that a memorial. They were not removed before the Ukraine war and 40% (not a minority in any way) of Latvian (with russian roots) these citizens would have course complain. Only when the Latvian Government decided to remove them, more than 50% of people were outspoken--so would you, if the Tomb of the unknown soldier was torn down or the epitaph !!!. This war has destroyed many families many mixed marriages, people half Russian- half Ukraine- half Latvian etc etc again read up on the history and maybe you will learn something

A little cross section of the Baltic states which you seem to think are being unjustly portrayed as wanting to distance themselves from Russia:

Poll: Third of Russian-speakers in Estonia back relocating Soviet monuments

Around a third of Estonian residents of 'other nationalities', meaning in practice predominantly Russian-speakers, now think that Soviet-era monuments should be relocated to museums and away from public places, according to a recent survey.

news.err.ee

84% of Estonians think Soviet monuments should be in museums not public spaces, and 34% of other nationalities (mainly Russian) living in Estonia.

Exit polls put Latvia PM's New Unity party ahead in general election

Analysts believe that the New Unity party of PM Krišjānis Kariņš will take the most votes.

www.euronews.com

Latvians have recently voted decisively for parties which distance themselves from Russia.

Fewer Lithuanians satisfied with response to Russia’s war in Ukraine – survey

A growing number of Lithuanians are getting disappointed with the response of both the country’s government and the Euro...

www.lrt.lt

83% of Lithuanians support arms deliveries to Ukraine.