Kwasi Kwarteng has been sacked..

Murphy · 18 Oct 2022 at 16:36

So what were those globally recognised objective measures? Does one of them include what governments would do in the event of a government mandated lockdown?

n111ck · 18 Oct 2022 at 17:17

Wasn’t the pandemic plan based on flu but as we know covid is not like flu..

Trusty · 18 Oct 2022 at 18:04

Irish_Tom said:
Was busy yesterday, so could only read, not respond.

You're acting as if the Debt:GDP ratio is the only (or single most important) aspect of a country's economy. All sorts of other factors will affect a country's ability to weather the storm of a recession or economic shock. From the country's deficit going into the recession, to existing bond/gilt borrowing costs, to growth levels, inflation, the value of their currency, market sentiment towards the country, etc.

It pretty much is. The debt and the ability to service it has a far bigger influence than FX strength and growth where there are only minor differences between developed countries. The whole point of Jackson Hole is for CB's to manage that stuff. And ironically, market sentiment in the gilt market was worse in August and July, according to NIESR term premia trackers.
Its going to be extremely frustrating, if over the next 6 months, we see countries around us in the G7 doing more fiscal support and investment in the public sector than we are, and the UK continues with austerity mk 2.

Irish_Tom said:
Well, according to @Trusty, we've got a very strong Debt:GDP Ratio, so now would be the time to take advantage of that by borrowing more to increase public-sector pay.

Absolutely. I'm sure the government could work something out

Irish_Tom · 18 Oct 2022 at 18:15

Trusty said:
Its going to be extremely frustrating, if over the next 6 months, we see countries around us in the G7 doing more fiscal support and investment in the public sector than we are, and the UK continues with austerity mk 2.

Something we agree on!

Tony Edwards · 18 Oct 2022 at 18:29

Murphy said:
Because most people assume a government does what it's mean to do, you know stuff like protecting the country and its population.

What you're essentially suggesting is that we should be applying political pressure asking if our nuclear deterrent is prepared, if our navy is prepared, if basically every part of government is prepared for everything...Who exactly is running the country us or them? Should i be giving Virgin Media a call to make sure they're prepared for the failure of some unknown piece of equipment that's vital for my internet or should i perhaps trust that they know what they're doing.

dLockers said:
Sols already put that to bed. We were number 2 for preparedness apparently. So the plan was class leading. It's almost like plans go to pot when the world is collapsing around it.

dLockers said:
Good cope. You whinge we didn't have a plan - turned out we had the second best plan globally. You are now saying second best isn't good enough - lol. Keep going pal, I will start knitting your cape.

I think you are ignoring that our PPE stock level was lower than it should have been and most of it was out of date due to Tory ~~incompetence~~ ideology. We also already had a form of track and trace in place before the Tories gave gazzilions to their mates for a sub par performance.

The Tories did about as good a job with the pandemic as Kwasi did with the economy.

Roar87 · 18 Oct 2022 at 18:47

n111ck said:
Wasn’t the pandemic plan based on flu but as we know covid is not like flu..

Yeah we basically planned for the most likely scenario, a flu virus, and were hit by one that was less likely - a SARS like virus. This is of course the Tories fault for not having their unlimited money cheat active so we could plan and prepare for every event that might possibly occur.

Tony Edwards · 18 Oct 2022 at 18:49

Roar87 said:
Yeah we basically planned for the most likely scenario, a flu virus, and were hit by one that was less likely - a SARS like virus. This is of course the Tories fault for not having their unlimited money cheat active so we could plan and prepare for every event that might possibly occur.

You cant be that stupid surely?

What was Exercise Cygnus and what did it find?

The 2016 simulation of a pandemic found holes in the UK’s readiness for such a crisis

www.theguardian.com

What were its findings?

The Cygnus report was frank about the state of the UK’s readiness. “The UK’s preparedness and response, in terms of its plans, policies and capability, is currently not sufficient to cope with the extreme demands of a severe pandemic that will have a nationwide impact across all sectors,” it found.

Why hasn’t the report been published before now?

Though discussed at an NHS board meeting and mentioned in a speech by the former chief medical officer, the report on Cygnus has never been published, for reasons that are not entirely clear. The health secretary at the time of the exercise, Jeremy Hunt, has said he would be relaxed about the report being published.

In a response to a freedom of information request, the Department of Health claimed that the report needed to be kept secret so as to inform policy development.

CapitalOne · 18 Oct 2022 at 18:52

Isn’t the word “apologists”?

Rroff · 18 Oct 2022 at 18:55

n111ck said:
Wasn’t the pandemic plan based on flu but as we know covid is not like flu..

Being the most likely it was, but it wasn't the only planning we had - until about 2010 when the Tories phased out most of it without replacement.

Murphy · 18 Oct 2022 at 18:57

Roar87 said:
Yeah we basically planned for the most likely scenario, a flu virus, and were hit by one that was less likely - a SARS like virus. This is of course the Tories fault for not having their unlimited money cheat active so we could plan and prepare for every event that might possibly occur.

Or maybe just do some basic planning like, if we have to restrict public freedoms to such an extent that people can't work we should do a, b, c, and if we have to support people and/or businesses this is how we'll check if claims are valid.

RaXor77 · 18 Oct 2022 at 19:00

Murphy said:
Or maybe just do some basic planning like, if we have to restrict public freedoms to such an extent that people can't work we should do a, b, c, and if we have to support people and/or businesses this is how we'll check if claims are valid.

Yeah because it's just as easy as that, innit.

Murphy · 18 Oct 2022 at 19:04

RaXor77 said:
Yeah because it's just as easy as that, innit.

Oh yea, i forgot that we've never had to check if a business or person has a valid claim for government support. :cry:

200sols · 18 Oct 2022 at 19:07

RaXor77 said:
Yeah because it's just as easy as that, innit.

To quote Coldplay

"Nobody said it was easy
No one ever said it would be this hard
Oh, take me back to the start
I was just guessing at numbers and figures"

Amazing they nailed it.

CapitalOne · 18 Oct 2022 at 19:14

Just for the record, the Tory governments since the announcement of the referendum have been sinking down the competence scale up to this point and will continue beyond.
I don’t blame the fans for believing running a country can be done with simple catch phrases and simple ideology because that’s pub talk. Professional politicians doing it though is dereliction of duty. If you want to tell magic stories to a bunch of believers with no consequences you should be a primary school teacher not a politician. That is said with a massive apology to primary school teachers who actually do more than read stories and understand the consequences of their actions

Rroff · 18 Oct 2022 at 19:22

CapitalOne said:
Just for the record, the Tory governments since the announcement of the referendum have been sinking down the competence scale up to this point and will continue beyond.
I don’t blame the fans for believing running a country can be done with simple catch phrases and simple ideology because that’s pub talk. Professional politicians doing it though is dereliction of duty. If you want to tell magic stories to a bunch of believers with no consequences you should be a primary school teacher not a politician. That is said with a massive apology to primary school teachers who actually do more than read stories and understand the consequences of their actions

Primary school teachers would probably do a better job of running the country than the shambles currently :s

D.P. · 18 Oct 2022 at 20:05

Rroff said:
Primary school teachers would probably do a better job of running the country than the shambles currently :s

primary school children would even do a better job

GreatAuk · 18 Oct 2022 at 20:35

Tbf Italy and Cambodia didn't have a very good time when they were run by school teachers, so I'd go with the pupils being the best shot too

wildman · 18 Oct 2022 at 21:38

CapitalOne said:
Isn’t the word “apologists”?

it's more acolyte than apologist.

Murphy · 18 Oct 2022 at 22:40

CapitalOne said:
I don’t blame the fans for believing running a country can be done with simple catch phrases and simple ideology because that’s pub talk.

I'm not sure it's even ideology. Thatcher was ideologically driven and as much as i disagree with that ideology, especially so if you happened to find yourself holding the poopy end of the stick, at least i could see there was a rhyme and reason behind her beliefs, you could see what she was trying to achieve.

What we've had since 2016 seem to make no sense whatsoever as it seems to be based almost entirely on feelings.

CapitalOne · 18 Oct 2022 at 22:45

Murphy said:
I'm not sure it's even ideology. Thatcher was ideologically driven and as much as i disagree with that ideology, especially so if you happened to find yourself holding the poopy end of the stick, at least i could see there was a rhyme and reason behind her beliefs, you could see what she was trying to achieve.

What we've had since 2016 seem to make no sense whatsoever as it seems to be based almost entirely on feelings.

Fair play, but for punters ideology/feelings are the same thing. For the professionals though, they aren’t compared to the muppet show for nothing

I’m sure it was all just for “the likes”.