Am I mental? - What are the pitfalls?

Soldato
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30 Sep 2008
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Bit Home & Garden, bit Legal Advice, bit checking I've not utterly lost my mind...

I'm hitting 40 in the next couple of months. Divorced, two children who are not in my life - we don't need to get into that, but this is the background.

I work a fully remote role at present, its currently a contract role but expected to switch to perm in the next 3 months. If this doesn't pan out for any reason I'm not short of offers and remote work or 80% remote work is expected to be achievable in any role I consider in the future.

I currently rent a flat which is more than sufficient for my needs. I have a deposit approaching six figures saved up and was planning on purchasing a house once the uncertainty around a perm job resolves itself.

My mum lives in the Essex countryside, tiny village, roughly 10 miles from a train station, bum-end of nowhere.

My mothers health is failing, she is in and out of hospital every 3 months. Mainly COPD related as she is a 60 a day smoker who refuses to change. She has also had one serious fall that resulted in a hip replacement... this has been building over the last 3 years but it is that the point that she can no longer cope on her own. She owns a two bed bungalow outright in this quaint Essex village. She has owned it for roughly 20 years and during that time it has had minimal work doing to it, in good condition I'd suggest the value to be in the region of £500k, in its current state I think £450k is a stretch. She will not move, this has been passionately debated, it is not going to happen.

If nothing is done my mum will be forced to accept care support in less than 2 years at current rate of progress. As she owns her property this care would be funded from the value of her home, eating away at any inheritance that would pass to me, this is not an acceptable scenario for her and something I would also like to avoid.

Moving closer to my mum isn't an option, the sort of properties that would be acceptable to me are either out of budget or fixer-uppers that would require more capital than I have available.

The only compromise that we have been able to arrive at is that I will need to go and live with her. I can provide the day to day support she needs, do the shopping run, do the hospital trips, etc. The property at the moment is too small to accommodate us both. We get on well, but we both like our own space and living together long term in a two bed bungalow will not work.

We have arrived at a potential solution, but I'm aware there are potential pitfalls we need to address. The proposal - mother gifts me 2/3rds of the property and we become co-owners. Using existing funds and a mortgage in the region of £100k-£200k I pour money into this property to bring it up to a livable standard - loft extension, rear extension, new bathroom, new kitchen, double glazing throughout... about 1 step shy of knocking the place down and starting again. This would create a property in excess of 2000 Square Feet, and allow us to have completely separate living areas with the only shared space being the kitchen / garden. We think we can make this work.

Obviously the property could be liable for IHT if she were to pass in the next 7 years, we're not overly concerned about this given my dads IHT allowance was not utilised at all on his passing. As she will own 33% of the new property I understand that this could also be considered in the means assessment for any future care requirements - although I'll be banking enough to afford in-home support should it be required in the short term. If things do progress longer-term down the care home route that is something that will need to be considered and will most likely result in the sale of the property.

There are obviously drawbacks for me, I'm 40 years old and technically living with my mum, my social life is likely to die on its backside, but I have an obligation to her for all that she has done for me over the years and I am willing to accept this. There are obviously dating drawbacks as well, but I can live with those. Another thing to be considered is the level of disruption the building works will cause, a very close friend of the family owns a property development company that specialises in loft conversions / extensions and has suggested that a phased approach to works could be adopted so that the whole property isn't a building site at once.

What else am I missing? Have I utterly lost my mind?
 
Don't do it. You are too young. She is wealthy enough to sort herself out.
 
are the the only child? difficult situation mate I feel for u

hope it all works out. Personally now im living out away from parents I don't think I could live with them anymore. I appreciate your situation is about health etc so totally different.

Sounds like your mum is being really stubborn what's holding her back from selling and living near u? I tell you, the older they get the harder it is I fear that for myself also

You get more from the government in this country when you don't have any assets makes me really angry that does, this whole country is in the frying pan right now and these policitians are fueling the fire.
 
eating away at any inheritance that would pass to me, this is not an acceptable scenario for her
Its amazing, she smokes 60 a day and is literally putting herself into this situation but the only thing not acceptable is that she might have to pay for the care she needs.
What else am I missing? Have I utterly lost my mind?
No of course you haven't, she is your mum after all but moving back in will not be easy and caring for someone is not very nice either, especially as they need more and more care as things progress. She really needs to stop smoking.
 
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Personally i would try it for a few weeks/months before fully committing to the idea. It might sound ok now but further down the line you may struggle to fully adapt to your new environment.
 
I wouldn’t be worrying about IHT, it’s care costs should she need it.

Given that she still lives in the property after giving it to you and it wasn’t an arms length transaction (E.g. you didn’t pay her for it), it will probably be considered hers for the purposes of calculating care costs if she needs to go into care.
 
There's no chance I'd ever go back to living with my mum.

She doesn't look after herself (smoker) and won't seem to compromise so I'm not sure I'd be willing to help.
 
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Awful situation to be in and I feel for you :(

That said, I think you should seriously consider pouring money in to the property until she's gone. You'll end up making compromises to the house in trying to split the living spaces which you may not be able to quickly reverse and that could lead you down a path of resentment. You say she's a 60 a day smoker? I'd want to gut the property and remove that smell (sorry) and you won't want to re-do decorating later on.

What's stopping her gifting you 66% of the house and leaving it like that? From what you've written, you living with her and supporting her with day-to-day tasks is what she needs.

Not legal advice but would her putting the property in to trust avoid the inheritance tax? Without technically owning the house she may be eligible for NHS care? Just a thought :)
 
are the the only child? difficult situation mate I feel for u

hope it all works out. Personally now im living out away from parents I don't think I could live with them anymore. I appreciate your situation is about health etc so totally different.

Sounds like your mum is being really stubborn what's holding her back from selling and living near u? I tell you, the older they get the harder it is I fear that for myself also

You get more from the government in this country when you don't have any assets makes me really angry that does, this whole country is in the frying pan right now and these policitians are fueling the fire.
Only child unfortunately, and she has no real support network out here.

The moving situation is a tough one, £450k doesn't get you much near me. She would want something similar to what she has, a two bed bungalow... there isn't much in that price range near me - it would be smaller and in worse condition / location. While I can accept living in a nice house with a rougher area a few streets away... I wouldn't want her to have those concerns.
Its amazing, she smokes 60 a day and is literally putting herself into this situation but the only thing not acceptable is that she might have to pay for the care she needs.

No of course you haven't, she is your mum after all but moving back in will not be easy and caring for someone is not very nice either, especially as they need more and more care as things progress. She really needs to stop smoking.
There is a counter argument that the tons of tax she has paid over the years on cigarettes and PAYE should be factored into account when considering the support available for care... if she were a 60 a day smoker with nothing to her name all her care requirements would be funded... I'm not saying either opinion is right, but thats the way she looks at it.

I've done everything I can on the smoking front... she isn't going to change. To be honest I think that ship has sailed now, 55 years of 60 a day has done so much cumulative damage that stopping now is far too little too late. Every single time she gos into hospital and the answer isn't 'Lung Cancer' we're both surprised.
Personally i would try it for a few weeks/months before fully committing to the idea. It might sound ok now but further down the line you may struggle to fully adapt to your new environment.
This would be the plan, comes with an attached cost as I'd be binning significant amounts of furniture accumulated over the years, but its not a show stopper.
I wouldn’t be worrying about IHT, it’s care costs should she need it.

Given that she still lives in the property after giving it to you and it wasn’t an arms length transaction (E.g. you didn’t pay her for it), it will probably be considered hers for the purposes of calculating care costs if she needs to go into care.
Yeah this is something I need to get legal advice on, I don't think they could consider the home to be fully hers given I'll have contributed in other ways to its value (ie £100k of my own money and £200k mortgage proceeds).

The hope is though that we can push the need for her to go into care down the tracks. Day to day she really doesn't need much most of the time, but when her breathing is bad she just needs some cooked meals / coffees, etc. Also the work done on her living areas in the house would be structured in a way to make her areas more suitable for a person of failing health, walk in shower, guide rails, etc.

If it gets to the point she needs help getting dressed then I'll pay for somebody to come in an hour a day to take care of it, its only when things progress beyond that point that a care home could be required.
 
Awful situation to be in and I feel for you :(

That said, I think you should seriously consider pouring money in to the property until she's gone. You'll end up making compromises to the house in trying to split the living spaces which you may not be able to quickly reverse and that could lead you down a path of resentment. You say she's a 60 a day smoker? I'd want to gut the property and remove that smell (sorry) and you won't want to re-do decorating later on.

What's stopping her gifting you 66% of the house and leaving it like that? From what you've written, you living with her and supporting her with day-to-day tasks is what she needs.

Not legal advice but would her putting the property in to trust avoid the inheritance tax? Without technically owning the house she may be eligible for NHS care? Just a thought :)

I couldn't live here as it is now, the bathroom is utterly screwed, I'd have no dedicated office space so working from home as next to impossible. She also only smokes in one room, and we've agreed that she'd confine her smoking to her proposed 'living room' area - I also run air filters constantly in my existing flat, so I'm hoping that the impact of her smoking could be at least partially confined to her living areas and not the wider property at a whole.

Its a tough situation though, not fun.
 
I live with my mum and I’m approaching 37. I have poor health but hers is worse. I’ve had to look after her for years. My brother moved away and there is no one else to rely on.

We are very close by the toll it has taken on me personally both physically and mentally is huge and it has strained our relationship.
 
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It sounds like you are potentially creating a house that is so focused on creating two separate living spaces, that it won't necessarily be particularly marketable to your average house buyer in the future who will have needs more aligned to the normality of most house layouts where you all want to live together, rather than separate parts of a house.

The more I think about it, it seems like a lot of stress with all the building work that would go on, at a time where her health may deteriorate suddenly. To suddenly move in with parent/s at your age is life changing as you have both developed your own way of living and will definitely annoy each other. We did 6 months with both sets of parents split accross two households after losing our rental house and then trying to buy our first house. I love my Mum and Dad but **** me, by the end of the 6 months it was like I had been reborn leaving them!
 
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I think you're all raising very valid points, the disruption from the building work (and the dust!!) is a very valid concern that is close to the top of my list.

Also living together will not be easy, we know we're going to rub each other up the wrong way at times, but I can't think of any other solution.

On the separate living areas point, thats another point that hits home although I am slightly less concerned. Next door has had a similar although less extensive work to what I have planned and that sold 3 months ago for £650k after being on the market for about 6 weeks - if the timing had been better I'd have bought next door...
 
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