2012 BMW X3 2.0d X-DRIVE M-SPORT 8-SPEED AUTO 181 BHP

Won't go very far if he spends loads of it on things he isn't really that interested in, will it?

Sounds like he just wants a nice car. He'll get a much nicer car for what he wants to spend if he ignores the high performance models.


You're right, but you've not read my post properly, and you're taking it entirely out of context.

What I'm NOT saying, is to spend 70k on a RS6. This is a quick way to burn through money, and is a slippery slope.

What I'm NOT saying is ignore everything everyone else has said about xyz.

What I'm saying is that if you're looking at 15k X3s and X Trails, you have the option of looking at some nice performance cars for (relatively) little more.


I doubt Lee has really looked at 15-25k cars before, given some of his responses in this thread.
 
You're right, but you've not read my post properly, and you're taking it entirely out of context.

What I'm NOT saying, is to spend 70k on a RS6. This is a quick way to burn through money, and is a slippery slope.

What I'm NOT saying is ignore everything everyone else has said about xyz.

What I'm saying is that if you're looking at 15k X3s and X Trails, you have the option of looking at some nice performance cars for (relatively) little more.

I know what you're saying - but I think it makes it an even more important point. I disagree that 'nice performance cars' are only a 'little more'. They are available, but they'll all be older, higher mileage, potentially a source of more problems etc. The S4 is a good example - that is an S4 from the 2008 generation Audi A4. For the same price, if you didn't want an S4, you can get a current model A4 2.0TFSI. For 95% of people the 2.0TFSI will be a far better car - newer, more modern, nicer inside, less expensive to run. For 5% of people the S4 is better but those 5% probably didn't also look at a diesel Nissan on the same day, did they?
 
Please can you suggest something.

What about something like this. It's not what I'd buy, or you, but lets look at the advantages:

It's a current model A4. It looks nice inside and out. It's not an amazing engine but it's not terrible. It's also Approved Used so comes with a decent warranty. It's not even that expensive.

It's just 'some nice car'. Which I think is what he is after.

 
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I know what you're saying - but I think it makes it an even more important point. I disagree that 'nice performance cars' are only a 'little more'. They are available, but they'll all be older, higher mileage, potentially a source of more problems etc. The S4 is a good example - that is an S4 from the 2008 generation Audi A4. For the same price, if you didn't want an S4, you can get a current model A4 2.0TFSI. For 95% of people the 2.0TFSI will be a far better car - newer, more modern, nicer inside, less expensive to run. For 5% of people the S4 is better but those 5% probably didn't also look at a diesel Nissan on the same day, did they?

It’s relative though - for Lee, they are only a little more.

The experience of driving a V6 petrol over a 2L petrol is hugely different - regardless of whether you’re a car geek or not. The difference to a diesel is greater yet.


That’s not to say a 330d or an Audi B9 3L diesel wouldn’t be a lovely car - it definitely will


But there are other options which, for the first time in his life, Lee can look at.


Live a little for god sake - everyone dies one day.
 
It’s relative though - for Lee, they are only a little more.

Where do you draw the line? Until you're spending £100k this remains relevant. At any budget there are better examples of ordinary models available.

For only a 'little more' than the nice but ordinary A4 I posted above, you can get an even newer, nicer ordinary A4, etc.

I completely agree with you that a V6 is nicer than a 4 cylinder. To the point that I won't buy a 4 cylinder myself. But I also don't view a V6 Audi after looking at a 1.6 litre diesel Nissan, so it's clear that what I look for and enjoy in a car is different to him.

He just wants 'some nice car' and I think that a newer ordinary car will 99% of the time be nicer than an older car that happens to be much faster but more dated inside and out.
 
Where do you draw the line? Until you're spending £100k this remains relevant. At any budget there are better examples of ordinary models available.

For only a 'little more' than the nice but ordinary A4 I posted above, you can get an even newer, nicer ordinary A4, etc.

I completely agree with you that a V6 is nicer than a 4 cylinder. To the point that I won't buy a 4 cylinder myself. But I also don't view a V6 Audi after looking at a 1.6 litre diesel Nissan, so it's clear that what I look for and enjoy in a car is different to him.

He just wants 'some nice car' and I think that a newer ordinary car will 99% of the time be nicer than an older car that happens to be much faster but more dated inside and out.

I draw the line by finding balance. Not 15k on a 1.4 B9 A4. The interior is average in quality. If you're spending 15k on an A4, you could spend 25k on a 340i which will be an infinitely more exciting car.

I'm also not suggesting an RS6, which I doubt Lee would appreciate significantly more than an S4, for example.

It's about finding the balance.



I understand he wants a just a nice car. I'm saying that you can wait another month or two and not have "a nice car", but a really nice car. I'm giving him options, options he may not even know he has, or really understand why he would/should consider them.


I know a few people like Lee, who have lived within their means for many years, and then come into money. It becomes the norm for them. Now, though, it doesn't have to be. You can strike a balance.


I'll use my grandfather as an example. He's always worked, every day of his life until he retired. Always had a car which, in his words "did what it needed to do".

So my dad offered to buy him a nice car - anything he could afford to run. He chose a 320d Touring X Drive. It had all the kit on it, and he loved it. Couple of years later, his health meant he struggled to get in and out of it, so he switched to a 2011 Tiguan. He's used to living within his means, so the Tiguan was the right option for him. He doesn't care for a badge/brand/engine. The Tiguan is higher, it's in white and it does 40 MPG, so he got it.


I went to see him recently, and let him drive my S5. The first thing he said was "it sounds bloody nice". He'd never get one in his current situation, but I KNOW that he'd get one (likely an SQ5 given his preference for higher cars) if he could afford one. It's just more exciting. Even for someone who is really happy with his Tiguan.

But he wouldn't buy an RSQ8, because he wouldn't value it any more than the SQ5 (just examples).



It's about the balance. Nice enough that you can appreciate something really nice, without spending outrageous money on something you won't notice as much.




Yes - Lee will likely find the A4 great. But I bet he'd find starting an S4 infinitely more exciting.



The point I'm trying to make is he should go and drive everything and anything, and buy the car which strikes the right balance between "this is really nice" and "this is really expensive".


Don't spend 50 grand, but don't limit yourself to 15 when you're getting 10k in your bank tax free every month for 30 years.

Have some fun.
 
I draw the line by finding balance. Not 15k on a 1.4 B9 A4. The interior is average in quality. If you're spending 15k on an A4, you could spend 25k on a 340i which will be an infinitely more exciting car.

Actually the interior on the B9 is pretty good - it's better than a £25k 340i would be (One of the worst 3 Series interiors). More exciting? It would be for you and I, I am sure. But let me remind you again - he viewed a 1.6 litre diesel Nissan on the same day. Would you do that? No. The fact he did this offers us insight into what he actually wants rather than what you think he wants, which appears to be what you'd want in his position.

Don't spend 50 grand, but don't limit yourself to 15 when you're getting 10k in your bank tax free every month for 30 years.

Have some fun.

I think you probably need some perspective here - we are not talking about millions of pounds and which Ferrari is best. We're talking about whether to buy the old Audi with a little bit more power or the newer Audi with a bit less power.

I genuinely believe he will get more ownership enjoyment out of a nicer, newer car than an older more exciting car.

Or he'd never have started this thread with a link to a diesel X3.
 
I draw the line by finding balance. Not 15k on a 1.4 B9 A4. The interior is average in quality. If you're spending 15k on an A4, you could spend 25k on a 340i which will be an infinitely more exciting car.

Or you could spend £25k on a newer generation 330i which would be an considerably better car in virtually every way for someone who isn't desperate to have a B58 engine.
 
Actually the interior on the B9 is pretty good - it's better than a £25k 340i would be (One of the worst 3 Series interiors). More exciting? It would be for you and I, I am sure. But let me remind you again - he viewed a 1.6 litre diesel Nissan on the same day. Would you do that? No. The fact he did this offers us insight into what he actually wants rather than what you think he wants, which appears to be what you'd want in his position.

Having owned both cars I disagree.

The F3x interior isn't as nice looking, but it's functionally and physically better built.


I know what you're saying about a 1.6L Nissan and that I wouldn't do it. It's exactly WHY I'm giving him other options. The only thing I know Lee wants is an SUV-type car.

I think you probably need some perspective here - we are not talking about millions of pounds and which Ferrari is best. We're talking about whether to buy the old Audi with a little bit more power or the newer Audi with a bit less power.

I genuinely believe he will get more ownership enjoyment out of a nicer, newer car than an older more exciting car.

Or he'd never have started this thread with a link to a diesel X3.

But he can have both, for little to no impact in his money.


It's not spending 50k on a new S4, or whatever they cost, it's spending 25k, or maybe 30k on a same generation car with a much nicer engine.


Just try it, is what I'm saying.
 
Or you could spend £25k on a newer generation 330i which would be an considerably better car in virtually every way for someone who isn't desperate to have a B58 engine.

If you're buying a car which isn't a 6 cylinder petrol, I wouldn't bother with a 330i.

It'll be quicker, but that's it.
 
If you're buying a car which isn't a 6 cylinder petrol, I wouldn't bother with a 330i.

It'll be quicker, but that's it.

The current 330i is an absolutely excellent car and is so much better than the previous model that I can think of no reason I'd pick the older 340i over it.

It's only the fact I like 6 cylinder BMW engines so much that I don't have one myself :D
 
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The current 330i is an absolutely excellent car and is so much better than the previous model that I can think of no reason I'd pick the older 340i over it.

It's only the fact I like 6 cylinder BMW engines so much that I don't have one myself :D

Sorry I didn't make my point clear.

What I'm saying is that if he isn't going for something special, for not much more than the 1.4 A4, I wouldn't look at anything else.


The G20 BMWs are fantastic, but spending 10k on one over the A4 wouldn't be worth it. I don't think Lee would appreciate the difference in build/features, as you've pointed out before.


Spending 10k on an S4, though - different story, maybe.


The reason for this is down to perceived value.




At the face of it, a car is a car. An A4 over a Mondeo is going to offer you better build, a nicer ride, better interior and that's mostly it. The added value is your experience of a more premium vehicle.


Like you've pointed out, I don't think Lee is going to perceive much more value in how premium a cabin is over the X Trail, and almost none between an A4 and A6. Hence, I don't think it makes sense to get a G20 3 series over the A4 you've listed.


BUT


He may find that driving something that's not only higher performance, but sonically more exciting, to be of greater value, and given his financial situation, he can do this WITHOUT sacrificing things like age/mileage.


Is he likely to notice much of a difference between an S4 and S6? No. But a 1.4 A4 and an S4? Maybe - so try one, because it also isn't going to cost significantly more either.
 
Actually the interior on the B9 is pretty good - it's better than a £25k 340i would be

I wanted to elaborate on my point, as well, since I feel I can add some value for people reading this.


I owned my F31 for about 8 months, and I've owned my B9 S5 since May.


The S5 undoubtedly has a better looking interior, but as I mentioned, it's functionally and physically leagues behind the BMW. Here are some of the main points:

  • Driving position isn't as good. I can't rest my arms on the door and hold the steering wheel, for example.
  • No touchscreen - I don't want only touchscreen, but using Apple CarPlay without having access to a touchscreen is annoying as heck.
  • There are SO many things which rattle. I've spent countless weekends taking the car apart to find them. I've got one or two left. The BMW only had the door lock thingies, which rattle in their socket when the car is locked.
  • BMW do air con the best. Don't even try arguing with me :cool:

As a package though, the B9 is nicer than the F3x, especially with my RGB interior lights :p
 
I think it’s pretty pointless buying a diesel now, with the continued high price of it, Clean Air Zones being introduced etc.
I’d expect further restrictions and even sanctions in the near future as it’s phased out
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions, I've gone and put a deposit down on a nice approved used 2 year old Jaguar E-Pace today at a Jaguar dealer.

I'll keep it for a while then get something different/better/more powerful when I get bored of it. :)
 
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Thanks for all the suggestions, I've gone and put a deposit down on a nice approved used 2 year old Jaguar E-Pace today at a Jaguar dealer.

I'll keep it for a while then get something different/better/more powerful when I get bored of it. :)
Great shout Lee! Congrats.

Definitely work your way up, you don't want to kill yourself after 2 payments.
 
I've never spent this much on a car before, my cars have always been sub £5K apart from my current Focus was £5995 3 years ago.
 
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I've never spent this much on a car before, my cars have always been sub £5K apart from my current Focus was £5995 3 years ago.
It'll be awesome, the E Pace is a great looking car, too. Not too showy you'll get yourself into trouble either.

Can't wait for your house buying thread!!
 
Thanks for all the suggestions, I've gone and put a deposit down on a nice approved used 2 year old Jaguar E-Pace today at a Jaguar dealer.

I'll keep it for a while then get something different/better/more powerful when I get bored of it. :)
Nice one, congrats! God you gave me palpations when you started looking at horrible X-Trails :p
 
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