Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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Uther said:
If Russia gets away with it this time, I doubt they will get away with it again. Their best bet would be to stop lobbing missiles anywhere near a NATO country. NATO is not going to want to go in, but it can't ignore it.
They probably won't invoke article 5 over this, but missiles landing in Poland could easily warrant it. There has to be a response, that's the whole point of NATO.
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Didn’t they already get away with it, the ones that dropped on Croatia?
 
Turn said:
Polish Govt Spokesman Muller:
- There Was Explosion That Killed Two Polish Citizens
- We Are Raising Readiness of Military Units
- We Are Verifying if We Need to Activate NATO Article 4, Consultation
- We Will Not Answer Any More Questions
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Article 4? I always here article 5...
 
Uther said:
Art 4 is 'consultation' whatever that means...
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The equivalent of a COBRA meeting I suspect, if the Balkans was typical, consultations can circle for months if not years. This is where dictators hold the cards, they don't "do" consultations, they give orders with immediate effect and without suffering impertinent questions. I suspect the bear is getting agitated.
 
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www.nato.int

The consultation process and Article 4

All NATO decisions are made by consensus, after discussion and consultation among member countries. Consultation between member states is therefore at the heart of NATO since Allies are able to exchange views and information, and discuss issues prior to reaching agreement and taking action.
www.nato.int www.nato.int

Under Article 4 of NATO’s founding treaty, member countries can bring an issue to the attention of the North Atlantic Council (Council or NAC – NATO’s principal political decision-making body) and discuss it with Allies. The article states:


“The Parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened.”


Any member country can formally invoke Article 4 of the North Atlantic Treaty. As soon as it is invoked, the issue is discussed and can potentially lead to some form of joint decision or action on behalf of the Alliance. Whatever the scenario, fellow members sitting around the Council table are encouraged to react to a situation brought to their attention by a member country.
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It's nothing more than an organised teams meeting really, doubt anything will come from it as if you read further down Poland invoked article 4 in 2014 as well

Since the Alliance’s creation in 1949, Article 4 has been invoked seven times. On 24 February 2022, Bulgaria, Czechia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Slovakia requested to hold consultations under Article 4 following the Russian invasion of Ukraine.


On 26 July 2015, Türkiye made the same request in view of the seriousness of the situation following terrorist attacks, and to inform Allies of the measures it was taking. Poland invoked Article 4 on 3 March 2014 following increasing tensions in neighbouring Ukraine, as a result of Russia’s aggressive actions. On two occasions in 2012, Türkiye requested a NAC meeting under Article 4: once on 22 June after one of its fighter jets was shot down by Syrian air defence forces and the second time on 3 October when five Turkish civilians were killed by Syrian shells. Following these incidents, on 21 November, Türkiye requested the deployment of Patriot missiles. NATO agreed to this defensive measure so as to help Türkiye defend its population and territory, and help de-escalate the crisis along the border.
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Chris Wilson said:
I suspect the bear is getting agitated.
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:cry:
Meanwhile... The bear!
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Measuring the distances, it is looking like it was launched from Belarus, which is going to be interesting. (If it was an S-300).
 
robfosters said:
Zelensky needs to be careful and temperate with his words slightly I feel.

I know he’s terribly aggrieved but he’s desperately trying to drag us into this. He has no concrete proof of what happened
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Yes. That leader should just pipe down as his country is invaded.
Didn’t you claim the petrol bomb attack wasn’t motivated by racists?
And now trying to downplay this. What’s your angle here?
Sometimes if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, tastes like a duck and is called a duck, it’s a duck.
 
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Seems absurd that this would be an intentional strike. Why on earth do NATO need reminding that it can be 'struck'? We have that most advanced intelligence network on the planet, we do not need reminding that some Russians have the capability to strike territory outside of Ukraine. Also, they've denied it which isn't worth a damn I know, but if it where intentional they'd have at least preempted it.

Don't buy that they're resting for NATO response either. It's too flimsy and underwhelming a probe.
 
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