Soldato
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This.
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No one buying or massive amounts of stock
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Is the number of cards you can add to your basket on OCUK the number that they have in stock?
Soldato
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Surprised Gibbo hasn't chimed in to say how good sales are, the cards are shifting quickly and the price hasn't dented enthusiasm.
Yes. The strix 4080 I can add 9, anymore and shipment is delayed for more stock to land.
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In that case they sold 4 of the Palit 4080 Gamerocks in the last 2 days, not exactly flying off the shelves.
yesterday there was 10 skus available for sale, 24 hours later there is now 14 available in stock
Well, I for one think we should congratulate nvidia and it's partners - all throughout the 30-series customers have struggled to buy the GPUs they wanted and here we are - only two days after launch and everyone that wants a 4080 has one.
Nvidia - here's to you
Nvidia - here's to you
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That is not going to happen.
Samsung cut Nvidia a massive deal, and it was really cheap. They did that because TSMC raised their prices and Nvidia didn't want to pay it. And TSMC did that because they were so busy making dies for pretty much every one. Nvidia, IIRC, made them an offer and TSMC told them to swivel. So off they went to Samsung, and it was a bit of a disaster.
This was always going to happen. Only to make it worse TSMC probably bent them over a barrel and made them really pay up. Because Nvidia are an arrogant company who think the world revolves around them. They have no problems treating people with utter contempt, and never have done. From their inception they mouthed off, talked smack and cut throats.
The main problem is how over the years as all of their other ventures fail they rely more and more on GPU sales. Case in point, their Android branch has pretty much died, their CPU idea was a complete failure, and they failed to secure ARM. Like I say, they have a history of failing absolutely everywhere BUT GPUs. So that is why Turing brought on RT. Not because they were genuinely interested in RT. They just needed something. The problem with RT, though, is that it is a rebadged server product. It was designed for deep learning. They just found a use for it with RT, and pushed it heavily into their marketing strategy. Which too, IMO, has failed. No one buys an Nvidia GPU solely because of RT. They buy it because the top end ones are fast, and Nvidia have a very strong loyal following. Same as Apple. This also brings with it a lot of bragging rights for people who feel the need. Who DON'T have a problem continually tipping money down the technology drain. Who don't care about losing thousands of pounds year on year.
The only way they could stop these stupendous prices? would be to go back to Pascal and Maxwell in design. IE - cut out the crap, up the clocks and make GAMING GPUs. Because these things? are anything but. They are rebadged deep learning server cards.
Thankfully AMD are doing the complete opposite. Which makes a nice change, given their GCN design was also not for gaming and thus, crap. Fury was awful, Vega was worse. The only glint of magic out of AMD was Polaris. Because it was a gaming tech. Navi? is also a gaming tech. The 5700 and 5700XT were great gaming cards.
The 6000 series? great gaming cards. Expensive to produce, mind. I reckon they cost AMD double what Ampere cost Nvidia.
The 7000 series though? oh god, it's GENIUS. Make the only expensive part the inner main die and make the rest out of cheaper parts. Who cares right? as long as it is good for gaming. But sadly there is a stark difference between someone who spends a lot of their time gaming and someone who spends a lot of their time on a forum.
If AMD keep this up they WILL have their Ryzen moment in the GPU space. In fact, I am almost certain of it. Nvidia have nothing else but their GPUs.
But aye, if you just take ten minutes to compare how beefy Ampere was compared to Lovelace? you can see exactly how cheap Samsung was in retrospect. The 4090 can and should be much bigger, and the exact same goes for the 4080. They are mere morsels of what Lovelace should be. But, you can bet TSMC really gave them proper ring sting and that is why it is so cut back and still stupidly expensive. AMD on the other hand? did not bite the hand that feeds.
Soldato
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Had to double take this part chief. Plenty on here swear by it.
Of course they do ! it's something to brag about. Because Nvidia have dedicated hardware for it and AMD don't.
Dying Light is now.... *checks*
at least 10 months old. Who is still playing it? and why would you? The rest? are all much older. Who cares now? where is the next big RT title? The problem with RT is like I said before, this -
7/10 games that are totally meh and offer nothing new. And Ray Tracing does not make them any better.
As I pointed out also elsewhere, when one GOOD game comes through I may change my stance, but until then you are just peeing money down a hole on "meh" titles. I really don't even remember the last time an absolutely killer PC title came out. Maybe Elden Ring? gawd knows. Did nothing for me whatsoever.
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Soldato
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hah ! am saving that for when I go to bed
But aye, it's nearly a year old man. And, unlike a true great it has no real replay value. And even if it did, seriously, would you still be playing it ten months after launch?
The reason it scored 7? was because it is just a sequel. Offers nothing really new over the first one, which at the time was a stunning game. First game I ever played in 4k ! another total waste of money lmao. Was pretty though
But yeah. They are always trying to market something. One minute it is 4k, but then they launched Pascal which at the time ate any 4k title you could throw at it. So did they continue on shrinking Pascal and adding more for games? no. That was when they literally reinvented themselves. Mostly because a 1080Ti can still run any game you throw at it at reasonable settings at 1440p. So they knew it was a dying marketing ploy. Then they bolt on some stuff and call it Turing. Only, they know they are onto a winner because RT on Turing was like going back to the 70s and playing "bat and ball" titles. A total slideshow, so they knew if they got people hooked it would be MANY gens before you can actually RT properly. Which is still all but a myth really isn't it? like, if it wasn't for DLSS? the 40 series would still look crap.
DLSS is very cool. TBH? it is the only thing that has made RT doable. But it is still not full 4k rendering is it with all the RT maxed? and it won't be for years. And, that is going on the game creators actually giving a crap about it and doing it from the ground up. Said no gaming company ever. They just want a fast buck. As was proven by DL2 being utter gash when it launched. And Cyberpunk? *lmao* don't even get me started.
From Turing on? Nvidia ditched all of their past behavior and became the Apple of the GPU world. Just make your product so expensive that it attracts those kinds and of course they will buy every gen.
And tell me dude, like deep down and honest... Who in their right mind would fork over two grand for a GPU and then be straight up honest about it? who is going to come out and say they are disappointed because RT hasn't moved on, there are still no absolutely killer titles for it and oops ! I just wasted two bags of sand.
No one. That isn't why they keep paying those prices and it never was. And Nvidia? have this all figured out. They could release a literal pile of horse manure, stick a RT badge on it and sell it hand over fist.
In the past decade it has been tough for me. Like, all of the games that come out just don't bring back that Fallout 3 magic for me. I would say the closest I have come to gaming nirvana since then was FO4, but it is noooowhere near as good as the original FO3 was. And all of the bums they keep bolting onto it interest me none either. That said I still return to it every now and then and give it a full 100 hour playthrough though. Mostly because FO3 looks so utterly horrid now.
Sadly star stuff and outer space don't interest me much, but I am hoping I can get at least something out of Starfield if it ever comes out. I did quite enjoy The Outer Worlds, though again because of the theme never did finish it.
Of course they do ! it's something to brag about. Because Nvidia have dedicated hardware for it and AMD don't.
Dying Light is now.... *checks*
at least 10 months old. Who is still playing it? and why would you? The rest? are all much older. Who cares now? where is the next big RT title? The problem with RT is like I said before, this -
7/10 games that are totally meh and offer nothing new. And Ray Tracing does not make them any better.
As I pointed out also elsewhere, when one GOOD game comes through I may change my stance, but until then you are just peeing money down a hole on "meh" titles. I really don't even remember the last time an absolutely killer PC title came out. Maybe Elden Ring? gawd knows. Did nothing for me whatsoever.
It's nothing to do with bragging, like I always say, it is such a weird stance why people are so against RT, we are all playing on pc largely because it offers better graphics, better performance and most importantly choice.... It's basically like saying no we don't want to see any more advancement in graphics, pretty much the equivalent to saying "we want to stick with 2d". RT is literally the next stage to providing us a leap in visuals and not just "shiny reflections", "fancy lighting" but it also unlocks the potential for far more dynamic environments i.e. potential for better destruction as an example.
Isn't the games and ones enjoyment all subjective too?
I actually jumped into DL 2 the other day to do some side missions, techland are renowned for their support and new content, see DL 1 to see how long that game lasted with all the content it got over the years, no reason to not expect the same from DL 2 especially given they just announced new content their recently. I found DL 2 improved in every way compared to the first but horses for courses and all that.
As for the other games, yes that is true, I very rarely re-replay games now but all the titles I have been interested have had some form of RT from day 1 so no need to wait and go back to replay with RT. I'll definitely be playing portal again as I haven't played it since release and it's quite a big visual upgrade, in fact, I'm looking forward to it more than most upcoming new games.
Regarding next RT games, obviously subjective but for myself:
- spiderman miles morale
- witcher 3 remaster next month (although I'll probably get bored again)
- warhammer darktide
- plague tale requirem (done my first play through there and it's a fantastic game so quite happy to do another replay once RT lands especially given how much the game relies on lighting and shadows)
- avatar next year, which will be RT only
- callisto protocol
Probably a fair amount of other titles which will have rt in some form i.e. starfield
As for RT not making games any better, this is true, however, if done really well, it can vastly improve the atmosphere to a game thus improve the immersion thus keep my attention as was the case with metro ee, first thing that will make me alt f4 a game after 20 minutes is if I don't feel immersed into the game world, it's why games like FC 6 do nothing for me now, dead game world, basically just a sandbox.
EDIT
And again, remember, RT is not a "nvidia" thing.... it is supported by every industry you can think of now. Nvidia simply got the ball rolling.
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Put it this way the trouble and strife sort of sanctioned the £650 3080fe but £1,300 to £1,600 for just a part of a computer??? You can buy a car for that.
I would say visually my favourite title in ages has been Stray. Absolutely loving that right now. It has no rays to be traced either.
Just watched the adored video. Gosh, 20 years before RT equalises and comes at no penalty. Funny really. A lot of my view point has basically just been explained in technical terms. I can see now why Nvidia were so eager to kick it all off. 20 years of people chasing dreams. Dang.
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No, not a leap. Yes, it can be an improvement for sure, but it's just another step in a long road (yes I've played, and thoroughly enjoyed, monochrome text-based games - not a single ray was harmed in those). It'll come, or not. Whether it is used in a game or not isn't a deciding factor in whether or not I'll enjoy a game so it's not worth spending significant extra money on. It's not that I don't care for it, it's not that I don't like it, it's that I [don't, don't, don't] don't believe the hype.
Again, not games that I'm looking out for. Maybe I'll pick one up in a sale, but it won't be because they are RT games.
I think your brain works differently to mine, or I don't understand what you mean by "immersed in the game world" - that strikes me as a very odd reason to give up on a game. I enjoyed playing CyberPunk 2077, not because it was exquisitely illuminated, but because (once it got going) I enjoyed the story. Infact, I would suggest that CP2077 is a good example of how "immersion" should be about the overall package, not any specific technology - I believe I raised this example with you before - the puddles in CP2077 are more jarring because they look more realistic, but don't behave like puddles of water. Compared to, say, Forza 4, where the standing water looks roughly like standing water and behaves roughly like standing water.
Mind you, I can get immersed in a novel. And that's monochrome text on a page too. Maybe I do hate computer graphics.
Is that like your assertion that AMD got the open source ball rolling?
Soldato
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Did you not see the part where he is alluding to a slowdown in progression in RT, there was a moment where he compares to 3090Ti and DL being one of the games it barely improved.
Yup stray looks fantastic, we have seen before plenty of titles where games lighting, reflections etc. can look superb but problem is not every developer wants to put in all the time and effort to get results as good as likes of rdr 2.
Thing is, to progress onto the next phase, someone has to take the leap otherwise there would be very slow to no progress and if anything this could pay of well for nvidia in the long run given how far ahead they are in this area now, just not hardware front but software front as well as all their partnerships with game studios and the new engines i.e. bit like how they were/have been ahead with raster. and dx 11 for so long where as amd had the head start with low level apis like dx 12 and mantle (which went on to become vulkan), although having said that, nvidia have caught up on that front as well now.
When I say a leap, I mean proper full RT like metro ee, not the hybrid RT + raster games we are accustomed to. 4a enhanced said it themselves, it is is the next stage in graphics.
Why are you saying it'll come or not.... we have literally got every single gpu powered device since turing released with RT support now, this extends from consoles to desktop gpus to laptop gpus and even smartphone chipsets now, it's not a question as to if any more.
Of course I won't buy a game just for RT either, I'll play a game regardless of RT but that's my point, it's easier to list new games without RT these days.
If a game doesn't grab me and make me feel immersed in the game world, then it won't hold my attention e.g. in terms of open world games, cp 2077, assassins creed unity, syndicate, I feel like the game world feels lived in, it's alive and "lived in", where as something like fc 6, gotham knights, they feel dead, lack of npcs, lack of world activities to give the lived in feel. In terms of metro exodus original, it didn't grab me, the whole art direction felt off, like it didn't suit the game world, with ray tracing, everything felt more realistic and how a dead nuclear war wasteland should look. I believe I linked you 4a enhanced articles to read a few days back, they describe it perfectly and offer great side by sides to explain and show this.
AMD and open source? Don't quite get what you mean here
Open source solutions is not something amd started, open source has been around for a long time..... Nvidia were the first ones to bring hardware accelerated RT to the desktop gpu space, had they not done it, chances are we would have nothing RT wise.....Yup. Like I say man, technically just affirming what I said. RT is like brown powder... You are chasing the dragon.
Was almost depressed when he said it would be 20 years until RT comes at no penalty. Music to Jen's ears that, no doubt.
I've been an Nvidia user since they showed up. So over 20 years now. At times I have bought AMD, purely because I was angry at them. Sadly? I rarely bought a good AMD card and ended up with the poop
I bought two Fury X chasing the 4k dragon. Sadly neither of them had enough VRAM lmao. I also bought a Vega 64, though in my defence it was for my third rig and it was cheap as balls. £220, IIRC. Right after mining round one. Obviously I did not need a 5700 or 5700XT because by that time I had a cut price 2070 Super (some Galax thing, it was £430) and then had my windfall and bought the 2080Ti.The only one I really got stung on was the 2080Ti. Good thing it wasn't my money that went on it really... Long story.
Last two though? AMD. I just can't justify spending the money Nvidia want. I really don't care about RT, nor do I care about it in future titles. Not like I can't play them is it? because no game company would do that, talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
I am glad I found PUBG. Because I was at a real lull and would not even turn my PC on for months at a time. That really ignited the spark again for me. And for that and all of the many hilarious moments where I have been laughing so hard my glasses fogged up don't need one whiff of tensor or RT cores. And again, gave me a good kick in the pants and reminded me what computer gaming was about. Because for so many years I tried buying into new things and all of the hopes they brought only to be stone cold bored within two weeks. And then very slowly watching the prices fall through the floor on stuff I paid good money for.
Like I said, maybe in this thread, to me my 2080Ti is not sellable. Because I would feel like such a mug I couldn't forgive myself. I am just glad I paid £200 extra for the Kingpin, what with EVGA's demise. Tis a very nice thing to hold onto for prosperity. Kept all the boxes for it too etc.
Now that all of the fanfare has died down on RT I just want gaming cards. And it seems AMD are happy to oblige me, and I don't even have to feel dirty afterwards. That said I am still using the Kingpin on my TV for 4k. Don't use it much, but nice to have a PC for that given 10m displayport cables are not a thing and the optical ones make the 4090 look cheap