Is buying a new BEV worth it ?

[Jonnycoupe]

It’s the highlight of my journeys to be honest, it’s not all about the destination

33,000miles and I’ve public charged maybe 15-20 times? Even a 450 mile range ICE would be 74 fuel stops (ie my Honda) the Defender gives me hives when walking to pay for the fuel

 

[[TW]Fox]

33,000miles and I’ve public charged maybe 15-20 times?

Because you've got a really good two car (three!) garage - so you take the Defender on longer trips.

Which for me is where electric works well - as part of a two car solution. Everything you do around town and the home can be zero emission and never thinking about charging as it's all done at home. Then when you do a journey, you use the other car.

Our first electric car will be a small city car for this reason I'd imagine*.

*The reason it isn't currently is because she does a regular long trip, won't drive anything that isn't a Mini and the range on the Mini electric is poor. Hopefully the next Mini will have a much more usable range. I'm really not anti electric car, I just don't want one as my only transport.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

You are right really its no way to avoid forecourts, although really its only MFG with that type of model at the fuel stations, the retail ones are quite different.

Note : I took the IPACE to Disneyland rather than the Defender... or bus Also done Edinburgh last October so im not on the page for short trips only... infact the wife wants to do a driving trip to Italy next year!

In terms of the OP, would you ever buy a new ICE? cos theres loads more cost effective ways to go for range of cars there rather than the more limited range of lower cost EVs.

 

[Uther]

You are right really its no way to avoid forecourts, although really its only MFG with that type of model at the fuel stations, the retail ones are quite different.

Note : I took the IPACE to Disneyland rather than the Defender... or bus Also done Edinburgh last October so im not on the page for short trips only... infact the wife wants to do a driving trip to Italy next year!

In terms of the OP, would you ever buy a new ICE? cos theres loads more cost effective ways to go for range of cars there rather than the more limited range of lower cost EVs.

You should watch Andrew Till/ Mr EV on youtube, he does the Italy trip fairly often in an EV, with his Italian wife moaning constantly about all the charging stops. One trip was in a Fiat 500e
The ideal for me would be an EV for local driving, and a proper car for my fairly frequent long trips. Saying that, I know I will end up in EV and just have to suck it up.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I’ve got a British wife, so don’t need anything to instigate moaning.

 

[Vogon]

In terms of the OP, would you ever buy a new ICE? cos theres loads more cost effective ways to go for range of cars there rather than the more limited range of lower cost EVs.

Yes,TBH thats why I am posting. I am weighing up all the pros and cons and thoughts/input from RL EV owners (not journos) will help me with the decision.
For me the pence per mile equation works well in favour of EV even with the current electricity costs, but making the leap still has me in a quandry

 

[Kill_Phil]

Yes,TBH thats why I am posting. I am weighing up all the pros and cons and thoughts/input from RL EV owners (not journos) will help me with the decision.
For me the pence per mile equation works well in favour of EV even with the current electricity costs, but making the leap still has me in a quandry

Well regardless of an EV you're best setting a budget and working towards that; you can then weigh up the pros and cons at that point?

 

[Simon]

That depends...

A) Pull up to charger, plug in, start charge, go for poo/coffee/burger/change nappy, go back to car, unplug, drive off.

vs

B) Park in car park, go for poo/coffee/burger/change nappy, go back to car, drive to petrol station, sort out pay at pump, stand in the cold for a few minutes filling car, drive off.


A is always going to be quicker, as the car is filling itself up while you do other things - most current EVs charge quick enough that the 30-40 mins taken to do what you'd already be doing at a services is enough to get another 150-200 miles in the battery.

Of course you might be waiting for a charger to become free which obviously makes it less convenient on that occasion, but to use your metric of purely "in terms of time taken", on average charging an EV* will be quicker than filling your ICE vehicle.



* provided you have home charging

C turn up and chargers are full, your mates go into maccies whilse you drive to the near by audi chargers which are empty at 15:55, only to see a sign saying charging after1600 isnt allowed.

Go back to maccies Bristol. wait for a space in the instavolt spaces designed for driving in forwards, leads too short for a rear quarter charge port so a million point turn to turn around, then eat food and wait another 20mins to charge at 75p/kwh... And its cold so you only doing 3m/kWh / 25p a mile. Then sit at 70mph and no faster to make sure you don't run out of charge on the way

A is never quicker. by the time most chargers plug in, mess about with app and do handshake most ICE tanks are half full.

 

[Haggisman]

C turn up and chargers are full, your mates go into maccies whilse you drive to the near by audi chargers which are empty at 15:55, only to see a sign saying charging after1600 isnt allowed.

Go back to maccies Bristol. wait for a space in the instavolt spaces designed for driving in forwards, leads too short for a rear quarter charge port so a million point turn to turn around, then eat food and wait another 20mins to charge at 75p/kwh... And its cold so you only doing 3m/kWh / 25p a mile. Then sit at 70mph and no faster to make sure you don't run out of charge on the way

A is never quicker. by the time most chargers plug in, mess about with app and do handshake most ICE tanks are half full.

Which EV do you have? and how many miles have you done in it? I'm not denying this is potential situation, but from my experience it's certainly not typical, and unless you're constantly using public chargers then it's going to be a very rare occurrence - it would have to happen many times to balance out the 8+ hours a year spent filling your tank with petrol/diesel.

Also, if the above did actually occur, it's almost certainly karma for eating "maccies"

Yes,TBH thats why I am posting. I am weighing up all the pros and cons and thoughts/input from RL EV owners (not journos) will help me with the decision.
For me the pence per mile equation works well in favour of EV even with the current electricity costs, but making the leap still has me in a quandry

Outside of the "99.9%" journeys under 120 miles, what other type of journeys do you do, and would you be happy with one of the following:

a) Taking longer for the journey when having to stop and charge*
b) Renting a petrol/diesel car to do them
c) Having a second "long journey" car

200+ miles is perfectly achievable on a "cheap" (relatively speaking) EV today - the newer MGs aren't bad - having test driven the ZS and MG5 they're both pretty nice, if you don't need the space then the MG4 is supposed to be even better. For something a little nicer, then the Niro EV will get you 250 miles real world range. The only problem you'll have with any of these is the waiting times - you're looking at ~6 months+. Price wise they range from ~£26k to ~£40k

Otherwise, as I posted earlier, a few years old 40kWh Leaf or Zoe should easily do 120miles, even in winter, and can be had for ~£15-20k


* I'm not going to try and claim that using an EV on a long journey is a bit more effort than an ICE, but from my personal experience in a 40kWh Zoe (with a 22kw AC charger, so very limited in terms of both where and how fast it could charge), it's nowhere near as bad as the anti-EV brigade would have you believe.

It is very much down to personal circumstances though - if you're on your own and just want to get from A to B as fast as possible then it might not be for your, but if you already stop a few times (e.g. having kids who need a wee every couple of hours), then this won't necessarily add too much to your journey, but sometimes will need a bit of extra planning to ensure you stop at the "right" places.

 

[squerble]

Unless you only ever use your car for the sort of journey you could have taken using the bus, you'll probably find yourself charging at public charging stations at least occasionally. So I'm not really sure how 'no more going to forecourts' is the sort of benefit that deserves any credit when deciding how to spend £30,000+ on a car. It's very difficult to argue that using a public charging point is anything but much less convenient than using a petrol station, even if you only measure it in terms of time taken.

Yea, I love having a BEV, but never understand that argument that "it's great to not have to visit a fuel forecourt". It might be 5 minutes stood in the cold, but I would have just added 400 miles of range in that 5 minutes. It's also likely I would not go in and pay service station food charges because I'm bored waiting for half an hour to add 180 miles range.

I'm lucky that in my 1 year of BEV ownership I've never ever needed to rapid charge thanks to my usual journey profiles. I'm yet to do a proper long-ranger, but I know it'd involve charger anxiety. In a few years I'm sure infrastructure will improve, but if I were doing a long journey today I'd much prefer to be in an ICE.

 

[Simon]

Which EV do you have? and how many miles have you done in it? I'm not denying this is potential situation, but from my experience it's certainly not typical, and unless you're constantly using public chargers then it's going to be a very rare occurrence - it would have to happen many times to balance out the 8+ hours a year spent filling your tank with petrol/diesel.

Also, if the above did occur, it's almost certainly karma for eating "maccies"

Cupra Born, 4000miles since Sept and regular trips of 185miles to Plymouth (free chargers are useful there but starting to fail as they prototypes). A

It will do 210 in summer but range gets killed by this cold weather and i wasnt full when left home. Theres not many chargers near KFC sadly and you cant be picky when you looking for places to stop with food and charger (difficult to do when driving alone too)

Anyway the benefit in running costs is unlikely to be more than the premium you pay for a EV now. My cupra was 34.1k in May. same car now is 38.4k. Whats a ICE Seat Leon? prob 10-12k less?

 

[squerble]

Cupra Born, 4000miles since Sept and regular trips of 185miles to Plymouth (free chargers are useful there but starting to fail as they prototypes). A

It will do 210 in summer but range gets killed by this cold weather and i wasnt full when left home. Theres not many chargers near KFC sadly and you cant be picky when you looking for places to stop with food and charger (difficult to do when driving alone too)

Anyway the benefit in running costs is unlikely to be more than the premium you pay for a EV now. My cupra was 34.1k in May. same car now is 38.4k. Whats a ICE Seat Leon? prob 10-12k less?

I've found BEV cars to be reasonably well specced across their range, and you often have to "go up" to get the equivalent in the ICE car, with that gap really dropping. That said, BEVs definitely still have a price premium.

 

[Haggisman]

Cupra Born, 4000miles since Sept and regular trips of 185miles to Plymouth (free chargers are useful there but starting to fail as they prototypes). A

It will do 210 in summer but range gets killed by this cold weather and i wasnt full when left home. Theres not many chargers near KFC sadly and you cant be picky when you looking for places to stop with food and charger (difficult to do when driving alone too)

Anyway the benefit in running costs is unlikely to be more than the premium you pay for a EV now. My cupra was 34.1k in May. same car now is 38.4k. Whats a ICE Seat Leon? prob 10-12k less?

Fair enough, your post came across as someone who has never actually driven an EV and was trying to come up with a worst-case possible scenario

Have to say I probably wouldn't have chosen an EV if I was doing regular journeys of that length (or at least not one with barely enough range) - that's the kind of usage profile which is still better suited to an ICE.

Agreed with the running cost benefit (unless you can home charge exclusively on a decent tariff/solar), although it's worth bearing in mind that the Cupra would still be worth a huge chunk more than the Leon in e.g. 3-5 years if you came to sell it, so the £10-12k less up front isn't quite the whole picture.

Looking at Kia as an example (since I'm currently looking at a Niro)

Niro EV trim level 3: £39.5k
Sportage trim level 3: £32k

so a £7.5k premium

Looking at 2 year old examples (the oldest Niros I can find on AT)

e-Niro trim level 3: £27.5k
Sportage trim level 3: £18.5k

So actually worth £9k more

 

[Journey]

So its time to change my car, should I go BEV ?

Maybe.

For those that have made the jump, Do you regret it, or are you happy you did ?

No /Yes.

Currently I am on 35p per KWH for my Electric, but could switch to a lower 7 hour night rate of 23p per KWH, current and/or future ICE cars I would have return around 35mpg with my usage and I don't do diesel.
Disregarding the higher price of EV's, (that's negated mostly by the type of ICE car I would buy) is it worth switching to Electric.

If all you care about is costs/saving money then you have far less choice in cars and may have missed the boat to be totally honest. However if you were to choose one for the other reasons as well then you can have a bigger pool to chose from if you included them in the reasons to buy X car.

For my use(s), commuting, visiting family/friends and holidaying in the UK, I'd never go back to ICE, and my vehicle is a lowly 38kWh pack. Then again I am not always in a super mega ultra hurry and pretend like 20-30 minutes of time is life or death like some people make out.

Why not just have a look at what is on the market and see if you like the look of any of them, go for a test drive, and look at your typical journeys over a year and find out if it would fit that use case.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Fair enough, your post came across as someone who has never actually driven an EV and was trying to come up with a worst-case possible scenario

He's got a reasonably active imagination if you thought his post came across as never driven an EV!

 

[Simon]

Fair enough, your post came across as someone who has never actually driven an EV and was trying to come up with a worst-case possible scenario

Have to say I probably wouldn't have chosen an EV if I was doing regular journeys of that length (or at least not one with barely enough range) - that's the kind of usage profile which is still better suited to an ICE.

Experience doesnt always have to be purchase justification led

Its not that regular normally just what happened on Sunday. And no my 20mpg ICE is not suited to such journey either

 

[Vogon]

Outside of the "99.9%" journeys under 120 miles, what other type of journeys do you do, and would you be happy with one of the following:

a) Taking longer for the journey when having to stop and charge*
b) Renting a petrol/diesel car to do them
c) Having a second "long journey" car

200+ miles is perfectly achievable on a "cheap" (relatively speaking) EV today - the newer MGs aren't bad - having test driven the ZS and MG5 they're both pretty nice, if you don't need the space then the MG4 is supposed to be even better. For something a little nicer, then the Niro EV will get you 250 miles real world range. The only problem you'll have with any of these is the waiting times - you're looking at ~6 months+. Price wise they range from ~£26k to ~£40k

On the odd occasion I need to go longer, its usually family hols and in that instance I would likely look at option b
If a very rare solo longer trip, I can nab the wifes car.

Cupra Born, 4000miles since Sept and regular trips of 185miles to Plymouth

How are you liking the Born ? Is that in winter temps too ?
TBH in terms of contention for EV ownership, this is the only one I like thats at a price I am comfortable with. Had short test drive and happy with the way they drive.

 

[sandys]

Why do you want to go electric?

If your reasons for getting an EV are ‘green’ based, clean air locally etc, etc, go for it.

If you just want one because you like the idea of them, go for it.

If your reasons for considering a BEV are to save money, that is thin grounds for buying an expensive EV, you’ll save loads of dough running a cheap old ICE and not buying a car at all, it’s probably greener too

 

[Haggisman]

Why do you want to go electric?

If your reasons for getting an EV are ‘green’ based, clean air locally etc, etc, go for it.

If you just want one because you like the idea of them, go for it.

If your reasons for considering a BEV are to save money, that is thin grounds for buying an expensive EV, you’ll save loads of dough running a cheap old ICE and not buying a car at all, it’s probably greener too

100% this.

Currently doing the sums re. getting an EV on salary sacrifice vs keeping my 12 year old Octavia, and there's no contest really - I'd have to be doing ~25k miles/year to "break even" in terms of costs

 

[Tinders]

i really want an EV to work for me, but as a company car driver, its still not there for me. Ive done 1000 miles in the last week, and ive had to stop a lot at service stations due to needing a pee a lot. Only once did i see a free available charger, most of the time people were waiting.

I wouldnt mind so much in the summer, but in the winter months no one wants the headache. More charge points are popping up everywhere, but i reckong we are a good 5 years away of having a viable network outside the house, by that time electricity will be that expensive that the finacial aspect of owning an EV will be gone.