1930s Semi Refurb - Part 2 of ... (Edition: Boiler/Water Tank Relocation)

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dirtychinchilla said:
This is misleading. You should deposit as much heat as possible at all times.
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Of course, but the point I was making was a small amount of water returning (due to fixed bypass/slightly open ABV) doesn't waste all that heat due to internal pipework loss/boiler modulation.

It's not what you want though and in two of the homes I've had over the years where previous owners have mentioned the boiler was not big enough, the issue was actually the CH pipework not being able to deliver anywhere near the output of the boiler due to poor layout/size/bypass. When you do the calcs it takes a lot of litres per minute especially at the lower output temps/delta now used to deliver the full output of even mid size (non combi) boilers.
 
Mysterae_ said:
They must be finished your plumbing by now @dLockers ?
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Yep all sorted. Nothing really to photograph other than what appears in post 156. I am suffering a bit though as the removal of the Potterton from the kitchen has meant the kitchen is a frozen spot in the house. I'll need to re-plan the design considering a radiator in there (or plinth heater).

I think priority is now to swap the front door for UPVC/Timber Composite to stop the draft. I'll also need to fill the hole that was made for the old vented tumble dryer as the Utility is super cold too.

The house just isn't holding the heat unfortunately. This is with the heating on right now.

RZvDSVR.png


Edit: the top 3 are Hue motion sensors and seem to disagree with the Hive TRV sensors. I'll probably grab a couple more of the Govee Humidty/Thermometers.
 
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dLockers said:
Yep all sorted. Nothing really to photograph other than what appears in post 156. I am suffering a bit though as the removal of the Potterton from the kitchen has meant the kitchen is a frozen spot in the house. I'll need to re-plan the design considering a radiator in there (or plinth heater).

I think priority is now to swap the front door for UPVC/Timber Composite to stop the draft. I'll also need to fill the hole that was made for the old vented tumble dryer as the Utility is super cold too.

The house just isn't holding the heat unfortunately. This is with the heating on right now.
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That's the issue with a poorly insulated (is it solid wall or presumably thin cavity?) they won't hold heat well. If its anything like mine is a solid concrete floor with 0 insulation too....
 
I imagine it's thin cavity. Unclear if it's insulated. But yeah I have a lot of boards half up, lots of broken tongues and poorly fitted skirting - so will lump it this winter and hope for a revelation next winter when all the work is done!

Just whacked some masking over the worst bits in the dining room and popped to Dunelm to fit a door curtain, we'll see if that makes any difference to the hall.
 
Do you know anybody with a thermal camera? It's a bit overkill but I bought one earlier in the year to help with draft proofing, central heating stuff and other projects. It's paid for itself already (or I keep telling myself that!).
 
dLockers said:
I imagine it's thin cavity. Unclear if it's insulated. But yeah I have a lot of boards half up, lots of broken tongues and poorly fitted skirting - so will lump it this winter and hope for a revelation next winter when all the work is done!

Just whacked some masking over the worst bits in the dining room and popped to Dunelm to fit a door curtain, we'll see if that makes any difference to the hall.
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... how much gas are you using ... are most of the doors being closed strict cells ..
also is the boiler being solicited correctly - geek charts with output temp, return temp, moudulation, flame on.
 
Are you planning to insulate the inside of your external walls?

I’m considering this as I’ve read some horror stories about cavity wall insulation on older properties that can result in damp issues. Someone I work with has had to have their cavity wall insulation removed to resolve a damp issue.
 
Mysterae_ said:
Do you know anybody with a thermal camera? It's a bit overkill but I bought one earlier in the year to help with draft proofing, central heating stuff and other projects. It's paid for itself already (or I keep telling myself that!).
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Hey @Mysterae_ how do you fancy a road trip to casa lockers? :o :D

To be fair, applying pareto, I know where most of the energy is lost so it isn't a surprise - poorly fitting front door, non-thermally efficient letter box, massive holes in most of my floor boards etc. I was just 'wishing' for a miracle after the heating was installed tbh :cry:

Post Christmas I'll get some quality time to re-wire/run CAT6 and then I can put the floors down permanently.

jpaul said:
... how much gas are you using ... are most of the doors being closed strict cells ..
also is the boiler being solicited correctly - geek charts with output temp, return temp, moudulation, flame on.
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Tbh after watching some YouTubers not a great deal, maybe I am just tight. This last few days it has been 5 degrees or so and I have used:

Mon: 50.55
Tues: 72.6
Weds: 44.46
Thurs: 54.68
(kWhs).

I haven't yet gone full geek on the boiler but I am sure I will be bothering @dirtychinchilla about how to work out flow temps/balance the system in due course.

Kohaashi said:
Are you planning to insulate the inside of your external walls?

I’m considering this as I’ve read some horror stories about cavity wall insulation on older properties that can result in damp issues. Someone I work with has had to have their cavity wall insulation removed to resolve a damp issue.
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Unsure, I will probably need to take some advice but need to find someone I can trust first...
 
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dLockers said:
Tbh after watching some YouTubers not a great deal, maybe I am just tight. This last few days it has been 5 degrees or so and I have used:

Mon: 50.55
Tues: 72.6
Weds: 44.46
Thurs: 54.68
(kWhs).
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Okay I'm feeling better about mine now :p (1930's 4 bed detached, 2ppl working from home, electric cooker). Gas kWh for the same Mon-Thurs was
Mon: 38.21375586
Tues: 78.78307774 (visitors who were cold)
Weds: 52.3583158
Thurs: 33.53611528

We're using electric oil filled radiators to heat the rooms where we work, and I've hung a dust sheet half way across my partner's office so she only has to heat a bit of the room.

As I see the cost on the meter cross £5, £7 or £10 I think how extravagant we must be but... no.

Our gas boiler and radiators are 25+ years old and it guzzles gas with little effect to most rooms.

Draughts are significantly less this year (we have condensation from drying clothes indoors for the first time ever) but still much insulation to do.
 
dLockers said:
Hey @Mysterae_ how do you fancy a road trip to casa lockers? :o :D

To be fair, applying pareto, I know where most of the energy is lost so it isn't a surprise -
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Noted jewsons rent flirs out .. later this week at -6C outside sounds a good opportunity. https://www.jewson.co.uk/tool-hire/toolhire-site-equipment/toolhire-surveying
Bosch reviews look so so.

dLockers said:
Tbh after watching some YouTubers not a great deal, maybe I am just tight. This last few days it has been 5 degrees or so and I have used:

Mon: 50.55
Tues: 72.6
Weds: 44.46
Thurs: 54.68
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guess you have 10k for hot water tank replenishment in there .. and with young children versus Harnser - santa needs to provide warm clothing for upcoming skiing trip.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Why so many decimal places :mad::mad:
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I copied from my spreadsheet that converts m^3 of gas to kWh.
dirtychinchilla said:
Have you balanced your system? That could be one reason why your heating is having so little effect.
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We had TRVs fitted when we moved in 2 years ago and I think they balanced it at the same time.
How would I know?
If it's unbalanced would some radiators be v hot and others not get warm?
 
Harnser said:
I copied from my spreadsheet that converts m^3 of gas to kWh.

We had TRVs fitted when we moved in 2 years ago and I think they balanced it at the same time.
How would I know?
If it's unbalanced would some radiators be v hot and others not get warm?
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Exactly that. Balancing had two main goals: to ensure that all the radiators heat up evenly, and then to ensure that you get a good delta T on the system. The latter I would only worry about when you’ve done the former.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Exactly that. Balancing had two main goals: to ensure that all the radiators heat up evenly, and then to ensure that you get a good delta T on the system. The latter I would only worry about when you’ve done the former.
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but the problem there is that in these energy expensive times, if you have balanced statically for all rooms on, and you then have scenario - turn off bedroom2 / kitchen / 50% of house , the balancing is out the window ?
I was chewing through the below earlier, and its unclear how you accomodate such a scenario without appropriate valves - maybe best discussed in the 'optimizing' thread.
The DYNAMICAL® thermostatic radiator valves allows the automatic dynamic balancing and pressure-independent adjustment of the thermal medium in the radiators of two-pipe heating systems
 
jpaul said:
but the problem there is that in these energy expensive times, if you have balanced statically for all rooms on, and you then have scenario - turn off bedroom2 / kitchen / 50% of house , the balancing is out the window ?
I was chewing through the below earlier, and its unclear how you accomodate such a scenario without appropriate valves - maybe best discussed in the 'optimizing' thread.
The DYNAMICAL® thermostatic radiator valves allows the automatic dynamic balancing and pressure-independent adjustment of the thermal medium in the radiators of two-pipe heating systems
Click to expand...

Well, balancing with the valves we normally have in the UK doesn't work very well for precisely the reason you've stated - you balance for a certain condition, which is full load. When your system goes into part load, the balancing is out.

Something like the Altecnic pressure independent valves are perfect. Danfoss also do some (who I would say are better, but you can't put your own heads on them) and so do Drayton (who are ****). The solution in the middle is the Danfoss R-AN valve, on which you can pre-set a specific flow rate, as you can with these pressure independent valves, but you don't get any pressure independence.

Feel free to put it in the other thread. I'll reply there too.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Well, balancing with the valves we normally have in the UK doesn't work very well for precisely the reason you've stated - you balance for a certain condition, which is full load. When your system goes into part load, the balancing is out.
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Aha, so as I go round the house 2-3 times a day turning radiators on & off depending which rooms we're in, it mucks up the balancing?

During the day the downstairs ones are on low, the two office rooms upstairs + bathroom fully on, and the rest turned off. In the evening the offices get turned off, the lounge on full and the others left on low. Bedrooms have yet to be turned on.
dirtychinchilla said:
Feel free to put it in the other thread. I'll reply there too.
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Which is this other thread I have been missing?
 
Harnser said:
Aha, so as I go round the house 2-3 times a day turning radiators on & off depending which rooms we're in, it mucks up the balancing?

During the day the downstairs ones are on low, the two office rooms upstairs + bathroom fully on, and the rest turned off. In the evening the offices get turned off, the lounge on full and the others left on low. Bedrooms have yet to be turned on.

Which is this other thread I have been missing?
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Unfortunately, yes. As I say, balancing is a bit of a farce. But better done than not.

There's this thread: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/how-to-optimise-your-combi-boiler.18958367/
 
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