Pipework leak in ceiling, how to locate?

[Dano]

So my boiler broke down just after the cold snap and I had a plumber come out to look this morning, he got it up and running again and pointed out that there was a lot of air in the system and almost no pressure, after getting the pressure back up and the system running he left and got on with his day. Several hours later and I notice one of my kitchen worktops was covered in water, closer inspection revealed that water was leaking from around a plug socket and there was also a noticeable damp patch above said socket at the ceiling, the pressure in the system was down to about .3 bar from 1.5ish when the plumber left.

The system comprises of a Potterton Promax SL15 boiler which is in the kitchen but on the opposite side to the leak, the pipes we think run over the ceiling and back down into the cylinder, there are a couple of radiators above and near to the leak but they both appear to be good and no wetness can be felt. There is no header tank as it's a mains fed system and all the pipework is speedfit plastic other than the copper piping in the cylinder cupboard.

Now, assuming there is a split pipe or knackered joint somewhere how much of a pita is it going to be to firstly locate and secondly fix? Am I looking at bedroom/bathroom floors needing to be lifted or will any fitting be accessible somehow rather than hidden away by the final stages of construction?

 

[Dano]

Oooops, meant to post in Home & Garden, sorry!

 

[adam cool dude]

If it is carpet upstairs then go from the top. If it is flooring/tiles then rip the ceiling out and fix then replace.

Plastic speed fit is just rubbish. Much rather have soldered copper any day of the week. Will last longer than you will live.

 

[Dano]

If it is carpet then go from the top. If it is flooring/tiles then rip the ceiling out and fix then replace.

Plastic speed fit is just rubbish. Much rather have soldered copper any day of the week. Will last longer than you will live.

It was one of the concerns I had when buying the place, was convinced by others that it would be fine, going to be an expensive 'I told you so' moment depending of how awkward household insurance will be.

 

[vail3r]

If it is carpet upstairs then go from the top. If it is flooring/tiles then rip the ceiling out and fix then replace.

Plastic speed fit is just rubbish. Much rather have soldered copper any day of the week. Will last longer than you will live.

I've replaced most of my house with plastic for both water and heating. Far better than copper in my experience and eliminated water hammer problems.

I've had 3 leaks and all of them were from copper that I hadn't got round to replacing. One was a soldered joint just before a radiator valve that just started leaking for no apparent reason.

The only problem I find with plastic is people don't cut pipes properly, don't bother with pipe inserts or checking the pipe is in and don't clip and support the pipes.

 

[adam cool dude]

I've replaced most of my house with plastic for both water and heating. Far better than copper in my experience and eliminated water hammer problems.

I've had 3 leaks and all of them were from copper that I hadn't got round to replacing. One was a soldered joint just before a radiator valve that just started leaking for no apparent reason.

The only problem I find with plastic is people don't cut pipes properly, don't bother with pipe inserts or checking the pipe is in and don't clip and support the pipes.

water hammer problem which I think you mean is vibration against joists etc is just due to poor installation. I guess if you had that then poor soldered joint again is due to installation. More than likely a dry joint. A soldered joint will last a thousand years a plastic joint rubber seal will deteriorate a lot sooner than that.

Plastic is used for one reason alone and that is £££ and ease of installation as soldering a copper joint does require a modicum of skill. Vermin can also chew through the plastic which cannot happen with copper. You don't see gas being plumbed in plastic do you?

 

[vail3r]

water hammer problem which I think you mean is vibration against joists etc is just due to poor installation. I guess if you had that then poor soldered joint again is due to installation. More than likely a dry joint. A soldered joint will last a thousand years a plastic joint rubber seal will deteriorate a lot sooner than that.

Plastic is used for one reason alone and that is £££ and ease of installation as soldering a copper joint does require a modicum of skill. Vermin can also chew through the plastic which cannot happen with copper. You don't see gas being plumbed in plastic do you?

Plastic pipe is used for Gas. It's just not allowed internally due to if there was a fire it would melt and then...

Plastic pipe can be plumbed in much longer unjoined lengths, bend round complex shapes again with no joints and be installed in places you can't get copper pipe in. It's not just about ease of installation, plastic can literally be put in places that you can't get copper pipe in.

IMO if plastic leaks it's also due to poor installation.

 

[200sols]

water hammer problem which I think you mean is vibration against joists etc is just due to poor installation.

Water hammer is different.

IMO if plastic leaks it's also due to poor installation.

Yep. Same with copper, its usually always installation. But I agree with you, plastic is best now.

 

[adam cool dude]

Plastic pipe is used for Gas. It's just not allowed internally due to if there was a fire it would melt and then...

Plastic pipe can be plumbed in much longer unjoined lengths, bend round complex shapes again with no joints and be installed in places you can't get copper pipe in. It's not just about ease of installation, plastic can literally be put in places that you can't get copper pipe in.

IMO if plastic leaks it's also due to poor installation.

Not just that but rodents love plastic and can chew through the pipe which they cannot do with copper. Plus the longevity of plastic is still unproven whereas copper has been solid for hundreds of years. I also personally do not like the idea that a rubber seal which will perish over time is the only thing that is sealing a connection.

 

[KompuKare]

Not helping the OP, but my concern with soldered copper is always how tolerant it is with any slight movements as I have seen brittle soldered connection. A good push-fit is far more tolerant of slight movement, and that the pipe are somewhat bendable also helps, I think.

Of course, there is push-fit metal now as well even that is mainly for look as Speedfit connectors are big ugly things.

 

[Lean]

Take the easiest and closest floor up where you are seeing the water run down into the socket. Then trace it from there. Hopefully the leak is under a tiled floor

 

[LuckyBenski]

Not just that but rodents love plastic and can chew through the pipe which they cannot do with copper. Plus the longevity of plastic is still unproven whereas copper has been solid for hundreds of years. I also personally do not like the idea that a rubber seal which will perish over time is the only thing that is sealing a connection.

I've just removed a load of 40mm copper waste pipe that had rotted through in several places. Installed 1965.

 

[Dano]

Take the easiest and closest floor up where you are seeing the water run down into the socket. Then trace it from there. Hopefully the leak is under a tiled floor

It's below the bedroom/ensuite wall, bedroom is carpet, ensuite is tiles, why would it be best to be under the tiles? Seems like it'd be a lot more work involved? The bedroom carpet I'm not bothered by, I was aiming to replace it at some point in the not too distant future so I was thinking it may be best to lift that and go from there. The local plumber reckoned it would be easiest to go in through the ceiling downstairs but I have reservations due to it being open plan and there would be a need to make it good with the rest of the kitchen and lounge.

 

[theone8181]

I've just removed a load of 40mm copper waste pipe that had rotted through in several places. Installed 1965.

Iirc copper can get worn away if it's not been debarred internally. Causes some wierd patterns and eventually works it's way through. I don't know why they don't use the other type of copper (think it's annealed) as its far more flexible.

 

[Mason-]

Surely copper ‘waste pipes’ are far more likely to have corrosive substances put down them. Not really a fair comparison to cooper used in central heating.

 

[Lean]

It's below the bedroom/ensuite wall, bedroom is carpet, ensuite is tiles, why would it be best to be under the tiles?

Apology "Isn't under a tiled floor" cold, stubby fingers on a cracked screen

 

[sigma]

Worst case you can drill a very small hole and use a bore scope camera. Not ideal and might be hard to find the leak but it's another option if it's too much hassle to pull up the floor.

 

[Dano]

Apology "Isn't under a tiled floor" cold, stubby fingers on a cracked screen

Hah, that makes much more sense to me

Worst case you can drill a very small hole and use a bore scope camera. Not ideal and might be hard to find the leak but it's another option if it's too much hassle to pull up the floor.

Now that is an idea, might have to buy myself one as an xmas toy lol

 

[adam cool dude]

Worst case you can drill a very small hole and use a bore scope camera. Not ideal and might be hard to find the leak but it's another option if it's too much hassle to pull up the floor.

Can imagine op with a new post. "Help I have drilled through water pipe"

 

[Participant]

Normally easiest to lift carpet and boards but you can run into problems even doing this, namely it's harder with chipboard flooring as you have to cut it rather than just lift it, and you might find yourself lifting large areas if the joists don't run favourably.