Spec me a Ubiquiti network, please!

katie279 · 7 Jan 2023 at 14:10

Hi all,

Looking to upgrade our network before we go ish some renovations as easy opportunity to swap switches etc.

Everyone seems to recommend Ubiquiti gear, so I'm trying to get my head around what I need as it's been ten years since I did the networking when we moved in which was pre-PoE and all that stuff!

What we currently have:

Hall
- 24 port network switch
- Netgear Orbi

Lounge
- Blackhawk router (dedicated for VR)
- 8 port network switch (both this and above connected to hall by cat6)
- 2x VR sets, TV by cat6, games consoles etc

Gym
- 4 port network switch (connected to hall by cat 6)

First floor landing
- 4 port network switch connected to hall
- Orbi

Master bedroom
- 4 port switch connected to first floor landing
-Orbi

2nd floor Study
- 16 port network switch connected to hall
- 2x PCs, 2x NAS and bunch of other devices
- Orbi

Garden Room
- 8 port switch connected to gym switch
- Orbi
- PC with other devices

Questions:
- I assume a dream machine or something is required in the hall?
- which of the many, many switches that Ubiquiti offer are best? Some seem crazy prices, am I getting anything more for these?
- I'm planning to replace the Orbi with U6 Mesh so PoE will be very handy
- I also want to install two extra Mesh satellites in the front and back gardens

Can anyone help me make the right shopping lists?!

WJA96 · 7 Jan 2023 at 14:32

On the switches, Pro gets you 1GbE ports with 10GbE SFP+ uplinks, Enterprise gives you 2.5GbE across all ports and XG means 10GbE throughout.

if you want to replace like with like then a USW-24-Pro would get you PoE++ on half the ports and you could use that to drive USW-Flex PoE switches to replace your 4-port switches at each location. Replace the Orbis with U6-Mesh and you want the router as well then you’ll want a UDM Pro SE or you might get away with a UDR if you don’t need very fast (1Gbps FTTP).

A slightly neater alternative might be to use U6-IW instead of your 4-port switches and that also gives you an access point at each location.

katie279 · 7 Jan 2023 at 15:17

Super helpful!

Ok, so I'll have a go:

- Dream Machine Pro or SE in hall connecting to main router - any major differences between the two here?! I'm leaning towards the SE as it seems to be newer, but then there's a Dream Router again which is cheaper, but seems newer still!?
- USW-24-Pro in Study and Hall
- 4 x U6 Mesh (for indoors wifi) - or do I use Access Point U6 Lites?!
- 2 x U6 LR (for outdoors wifi)
- Then for the simple switch areas, there's things like the Switch Flex XG and the Switch Flex Mini - but again one is £35 and the other is £350!? Is there a huge difference here?

It's all very confusing when they've got a dozen versions of everything!

WJA96 · 7 Jan 2023 at 16:18

There are 3 Flex switches;

Flex mini - powered by PoE or USB C, 4 x 1GbE ports - £35

Flex PoE - powered by PoE++ - 4 x 1GbE PoE ports

Flex XG - powered by PoE ir USB C - 4 x 10GbE ports

So yes, a massive difference.

katie279 · 7 Jan 2023 at 16:31

WJA96 said:
There are 3 Flex switches;

Flex mini - powered by PoE or USB C, 4 x 1GbE ports - £35

Flex PoE - powered by PoE++ - 4 x 1GbE PoE ports

Flex XG - powered by PoE ir USB C - 4 x 10GbE ports

So yes, a massive difference.

Ah right, so mini is basic PoE and the other is PoE++

What is PoE IR?!

And another stupid question - if I have a PoE switch, that then connects to a PoE switch (which is powered by PoE) and then that switch connects to a U6 LR that's powered by PoE - does that work? Ie can I have only one point of power in my network and everything else is powered from there?

WJA96 · 7 Jan 2023 at 16:43

In no particular order - U6-LR are not outdoor access points. Just use two more U6-Mesh.

PoE gives 15W per channel. PoE+ gives 30W per channel and PoE++ gives 60W per channel so yes, you can PoE power a PoE switch from another PoE switch to the point that the USW-Flex PoE is powered off 60W PoE++ and can then supply power to 4 other PoE ports. And yes, you can power the U6-Mesh off a PoE switch that is powered by another PoE switch.

WJA96 · 7 Jan 2023 at 18:06

Bear in mind that the USW-Flex Mini and USW-Flex XG has no PoE output. So if you want to power the access points from the local 4-port switch then you’ll need the USW-Flex PoE.

And I think you asked what PoE is Power over Ethernet.The device plugged into the network is powered by the Ethernet cable, no other power cable is required.

katie279 · 7 Jan 2023 at 19:10

WJA96 said:
In no particular order - U6-LR are not outdoor access points. Just use two more U6-Mesh.

Ah ok, it's just it said it was outdoor suitable, ok that's easier I guess if I just add a couple more U6-Meshes

WJA96 said:
PoE gives 15W per channel. PoE+ gives 30W per channel and PoE++ gives 60W per channel so yes, you can PoE power a PoE switch from another PoE switch to the point that the USW-Flex PoE is powered off 60W PoE++ and can then supply power to 4 other PoE ports. And yes, you can power the U6-Mesh off a PoE switch that is powered by another PoE switch.

Really helpful - got it now! (this is really handy, means I get get rid of all those awkward plugs!)

How are the 'in wll' ones meant to work - do I have to smash into the wall each time I upgrade my wifi or am I being stupid!?

katie279 · 7 Jan 2023 at 19:11

WJA96 said:
Bear in mind that the USW-Flex Mini and USW-Flex XG has no PoE output. So if you want to power the access points from the local 4-port switch then you’ll need the USW-Flex PoE.

Ah very useful - will watch out for that!

WJA96 said:
And I think you asked what PoE is Power over Ethernet.The device plugged into the network is powered by the Ethernet cable, no other power cable is required.

Ah, no I was asking what PoE IR was, but I think it might have been a typo having re-read it and you meant 'or'!

WJA96 · 7 Jan 2023 at 19:14

You put a back-box in the wall with a single cable terminated into an RJ45 plug. The backing plate screws onto the backing box and the access point clips onto that. To then upgrade your Wi-Fi you unclip the old access point, unplug the RJ45 then plug in the new access point and clip it back on the wall. Simple. No smashing required.

katie279 · 7 Jan 2023 at 22:00

Ah, got it now - that's really neat! I'm going to do that in a few places then for a neater finish!

Final question and I think you'd solved it for me - what's the difference between Mesh and AP? I know roughly, but there seems to be all sorts of confusion in Ubiquiti forums - ie the Mesh one introduce mesh technology, but newer AP versions do also. Some people say mesh should really just be called 'outdoors' as that's the only difference - any tips you can give me? (or more importantly, does it matter at all - will I notice any difference?!)

Thanks for all your help!

WJA96 · 8 Jan 2023 at 05:33

In Ubiquiti terms, they’re all access points. The name ‘Mesh’ means nothing. All Ubiquiti access points can operate in a fully wireless ‘Mesh’ mode but it’s a bit pointless because you can only power them from PoE so you have to run some cable anyway.

To most people ‘Mesh’ means a wireless connection between access points so you just need power to extend the wireless range and access points with free wireless channels are used to send data to-and-fro from the router. The more meshed access points, the better the coverage and performance. Some ‘Mesh’ systems go further and have a separate dedicated radio for the interaction between the access points and this makes them more expensive usually. Orbi has dedicated wireless backhaul.

john_smith · 8 Jan 2023 at 06:39

The mesh aspect of the APs can be good for an outbuilding that gets Wi-Fi from the main building that you don’t want to run a dedicated cable too.

WJA96 · 8 Jan 2023 at 06:47

john_smith said:
The mesh aspect of the APs can be good for an outbuilding that gets Wi-Fi from the main building that you don’t want to run a dedicated cable to.

Aha! A meshed access point that runs off batteries. Good thinking.

b0rn2sk8 · 8 Jan 2023 at 09:41

If you are planning renovations, is now the opportunity to run in some extra cables (cat6/CAT6a) to chop out some of those 4 port switches and as the same time get the network 10gb ready?

Those in wall access points WJA recommended would also do the business where you don’t need POE on those ports.

Mounting lites/pros/LRs on the ceiling also works really well.

katie279 · 8 Jan 2023 at 13:59

WJA96 said:
In Ubiquiti terms, they’re all access points. The name ‘Mesh’ means nothing. All Ubiquiti access points can operate in a fully wireless ‘Mesh’ mode but it’s a bit pointless because you can only power them from PoE so you have to run some cable anyway.

To most people ‘Mesh’ means a wireless connection between access points so you just need power to extend the wireless range and access points with free wireless channels are used to send data to-and-fro from the router. The more meshed access points, the better the coverage and performance. Some ‘Mesh’ systems go further and have a separate dedicated radio for the interaction between the access points and this makes them more expensive usually. Orbi has dedicated wireless backhaul.

Totally genius explanation! Thank you so much, that really nailed my understanding!

katie279 · 8 Jan 2023 at 14:01

b0rn2sk8 said:
If you are planning renovations, is now the opportunity to run in some extra cables (cat6/CAT6a) to chop out some of those 4 port switches and as the same time get the network 10gb ready?

Those in wall access points WJA recommended would also do the business where you don’t need POE on those ports.

Mounting lites/pros/LRs on the ceiling also works really well.

So I've basically got CAT6 everywhere I need at the moment, but is it wildly better to have direct cables all the way to each floor for example? At the moment I have a switch on each floor and these connect to each floor by daisy chain?

Definitely going to have inwall ones, they seem a great idea!

b0rn2sk8 · 8 Jan 2023 at 14:37

In theory you could be bottlenecked by an individual link somewhere in the network with everything not going back to the main switch but in practice it may not be an issue.

For example, you may be downloading downing at 1gb on a PC and somewhere else you might be moving data from the NAS to another PC and all of that data could in theory being pushed down a single 1gb link and causing a problem.

In practice, you’ll probably not have an issue. I was more thinking that you could have 4 runs to a room instead of 1 with the objective of removing cable clutter and removing equipment from the network.

katie279 · 8 Jan 2023 at 16:57

b0rn2sk8 said:
In theory you could be bottlenecked by an individual link somewhere in the network with everything not going back to the main switch but in practice it may not be an issue.

For example, you may be downloading downing at 1gb on a PC and somewhere else you might be moving data from the NAS to another PC and all of that data could in theory being pushed down a single 1gb link and causing a problem.

In practice, you’ll probably not have an issue. I was more thinking that you could have 4 runs to a room instead of 1 with the objective of removing cable clutter and removing equipment from the network.

Ah I see, yes makes sense - very occasionally happens (eg when I'm copying loads of photos or videos and trying to do something else, but pretty rare as you say).

Will have a think about this though, like the idea of multiple runs - I'm actually also trying to work out a way to make it easily adaptable in future - thinking of running cable in pipes so I can easily pull through new cables in future when all you guys start telling me that cat6 is rubbish and I need to get Cat42f or whatever....

katie279 · 8 Jan 2023 at 17:02

Sorry - one other point, does Cat6 not support 10gb to your example? I 'thought' it did hence I installed over Cat5e at the time, but could be wrong! If so, I might look at Cat 7,8,9 or whatever the latest flavour is while I'm doing all this!