Road Cycling

Following on from a chat in GD. I wondered what peoples experiences were with regards to Wheels/Upgrades.

As part of my new build i've skimped on wheels and gone for some lightweight Alloy 30mm rims (Prime Baroudeur V2) following on from a GCN video suggesting decent tyres on low end wheels were more cost effective than premium wheels/crap tyres. Obviously having decent wheels/tyres will win overall!

@AndyCr15 had different real world experience and so wondered what other peoples opinions were. My intentions were to upgrade the wheels eventually, use these for some proper gravel tyres, and then have 2 bikes in one by switching wheels.
You've slightly misunderstood some of the GCN video, as the wheels you've got are not really that 'low end' it talks about upgrading from (like theirs). They're already better made, more aero and lighter than low end wheels. They're generally talking about 'off the shelf wheels' on prebuilt bikes from the popular 'retail' pre built bike brands which usually are 'own branded', mass produced in factories to fairly generic low specifications and come with tyres which again, are own branded, mass produced and budget orientated. Much of the information in the video is valid but could be considered 'outdated' - the wheels they're talking about have got increasingly better as time has gone on. Giant branded wheels and tyres from 10 years ago have far less quality about them, than current Giant wheels and tyres for example.

But same could be said for tyres - premium tyres now compared to even 'middle of the range' there is far less to choose between them (also why their rolling times are marginal). Compare a Conti GP5000 at £50 and a Conti Ultra Sport at £22 and you won't get a massive difference, but compared to a Kenda tyre which came on a Halfords of the shelf £400 bike both would be fairly big upgrades in the quality and speed of your ride. Without upgrading the wheels that Halfords bike comes with, there would really not be any point to ride the GP5000 on there if you planned to upgrade the wheels. Stick the Ultras on, save the money for the upgrade, then maybe ride the Ultras on the still until you can upgrade to the GP5000.

Always bear in mind that GCN content is sponsorship driven - no matter what they say and how much fun they have. I'm not saying they're experts, but when they're all riding Pinarello's on Vision wheels with Pirelli tyres... When a few years back it was another brand (Kona?), before then they all had different bikes (being ex-pro's generally their old team bikes).

I'm currently riding Fulcrum Zeros and I find they have been a significant upgrade on my Fulcrum 5s which in turn were much better than the basic Shimano ones my first bike came with. That being said, if you are on a very strict budget you will probably get a more noticeable upgrade from better tyres (e.g. GP5000s)
Same/similar experience(s) which I'll list below (it's a slow day and you all know I love to share my 'wisdom'! )

Quite medium/high range bike with 105 (at the time) £900 Giant Defy 1 2015 came with Giant PR-2 wheels. Not even the cheapest alloy wheels they did at the time but kept going out of true and broke 2 spokes.
  • Replaced with 'off the shelf' Campag Khamsin £105 wheels and they where a good upgrade. Rock solid, reliable and even slightly lighter. Just better quality and better made wheels with similar components, so really down to the poor quality build of the Giants.
  • Replaced them with higher range (but still half alloy) Shimano RS81 for £350, trimming a bit of weight (only about 150-200g) but much stiffer and a bit deeper with less spokes so they felt & rode even faster. Without even being 'top end' carbon.
£2500 Specialized Diverge Comp Carbon 2016. Came with Spesh AXIS 4.0 wheels (a £250-300 wheelset). Buckled a few times but otherwise ok. Bad bespoke design meant the rear endcaps get loose, screwing the indexing and wearing the hub & caps.
  • Replaced with ~£650 alloy Zipp 30 Course, wider, tubeless compatible and lighter. Great upgrade and a bit of a treat, but still alloy to alloy.
  • Did get a set of Fulcrum Racing 7's for £180, heavier but felt well made. Solid and dependable - made me question the cost of the 30 Course!
  • Summer wheels got a set of £800 Carbon Zipp 303S, a bit lighter, stiffer and loads deeper. Feel a bit faster (but am running lighter and narrower tyres).
I guess what I'm saying is... Even though I've traditionally bought complete bikes, with own brand wheels. Replacing those wheels with 'medium' type known good wheels, even 'off the shelf' like Zipp and Fulcrum £200-300. You can get quality upgrades. The Prime wheels Martyn already has are around that area of the market I've tended to replace my 'own brand' wheels from and seen good benefits.

Those wheels look to be around £250 new, so not super cheap. I went from something like that to some deepish aero ones and the difference was huge (in speed). It also matters what you want. Speed? Less weight? I could spend £1,200 and have slower wheels than I have now, but they might be half the weight...
One thing I've said for ages is make sure you know what you're buying. Going for a Hunt/Prime carbon wheelset 'because it's carbon' is quite likely to be lighter and cheaper made than a quality alloy wheel. They might even be similar prices.

Yeah, that's where my knowledge falls down i guess. Weight is fairly irrelevant, i'm a shade under 100kg, so saving 500g matters little. And then along with that, i'm such a big object that i imagine my fat ass has a bigger aero-dynamic impact!

I did have a look at Merlin and saw a few good prices on wheelsets, but they were all a Shimano freehub, and i needed the SRAM XD.
Saving 500g rotational weight on a wheelset is pretty big, maybe not MASSIVE, but would be noticeable for most of us. Having a 500g turd before you go riding is really not comparable. But if you also consider at your weight, that '500g saved' wheelset is likely also stiffer for a heavier rider, so flexes less and transfers more power to the road... The same way that it will likely be deeper, so marginally more aero. But being a 'block' of wind resistance from a bigger guy, you'll get more 'speed' from a wheelset with stiffness and good tyres at the right pressures. Both giving you a more pleasurable ride.

But also don't rush your decisions - you've not even ridden the bike and you're looking at buying wheels to upgrade on it within a month! Factor in a cost of the SRAM hub to go on the wheelsets (prices of and how available they are for the wheels you're looking at). I bought a wheel £130 cheaper as it had a Campagnolo freehub on it, when to buy the Shimano freehub to fit to it cost £30.
 
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You've slightly misunderstood some of the GCN video, as the wheels you've got are not really that 'low end' it talks about upgrading from.

Surely then my theory is even more valid, that there's even less benefit going from the £100 prime wheels i bought with decent tyres up to something Carbon, because they're already a decent step up from the included bike wheels.

Saving 500g rotational weight on a wheelset is pretty big, maybe not MASSIVE, but would be noticeable for most of us. Having a 500g turd before you go riding is really not comparable. But if you also consider at your weight, that '500g saved' wheelset is likely also stiffer for a heavier rider, so flexes less and transfers more power to the road... The same way that it will likely be deeper, so marginally more aero. But being a 'block' of wind resistance from a bigger guy, you'll get more 'speed' from a wheelset with stiffness and good tyres at the right pressures. Both giving you a more pleasurable ride.

But also don't rush your decisions - you've not even ridden the bike and you're looking at buying wheels to upgrade on it within a month! Factor in a cost of the SRAM hub to go on the wheelsets (prices of and how available they are for the wheels you're looking at). I bought a wheel £130 cheaper as it had a Campagnolo freehub on it, when to buy the Shimano freehub to fit to it cost £30.

Cheers, i've just assumed weight was weight, rather than considering rotational weight and anything else that involves physics :p The main reason to upgrade would likely be to go for a deeper rim regardless of material as it's only 25mm on the Prime wheels i got.

Yeah, the hub was the reason for the switch, the cost to buy the hub was prohibitive on the previous wheels and so it made more sense to buy some user Prime wheels which already had the Sram hub.

The main reason for considering upgrades was coming from a bike with carbon deep 50mm wheels already. So therefore it feels a little like a downgrade in that particular instance on what i have already. It's also why i went this frame over something more aero as i wanted the ability to fit gravel tyres, so having 2 wheelsets which gives me the ability to switch between terrain without having to mess around with changing tyres appeals.
 
Also, first attempt at lunch to install folding tyres after i'd done the rim tape.

Man, is that a pain to do vs normal wired tyres. Think i need to spend some Youtube time to get the right technique!
 
If looking for wheels i'd focus on a good hub with easily changeable bearings and freehub for future compatibility. Too many wheels don't have these!
 
To add my two cents, I had a Giant Defy 1 2014 (with the groupset and finishing kit from a Giant Defy 3 2014) and that had the worst wheels imaginable for someone between 100kg and 115kgs. Always going out of true or spokes breaking. Replaced for some Fulcrum Racing 7's (IIRC) and they was brilliant but, wasn't as big an upgrade in terms of feel/speed compared to moving from the Giant supplied tyres to the GP4000SII. The difference was monstrous!
 
I have just replaced the 1.9kg DT swiss oems wheels that came on my canyon endurace with some zipp 303's i got them in a sale from start fitness and got an extra 10% off as a new customer which brought them down to £750, had my first ride out on then and wow it feels so much nicer out on the road.
 
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Also, first attempt at lunch to install folding tyres after i'd done the rim tape.

Man, is that a pain to do vs normal wired tyres. Think i need to spend some Youtube time to get the right technique!

I have found that tyres are all about working smarter not harder. You have to get the bead in the centre channel the whole way around the wheel or some tyres are an absolute bugger to get on.

My maths might be a little off here but on a 27.5" wheel, if the channel in the middle is 5mm deeper than the rest, you will get 4cm extra "slack" and when you consider that most tyres only don't want to go on for a small area at the end of the fitting thats usually plenty enough.
 
Long shot here, but does anyone have a 90mm road bike stem knocking about spare?

Long story short im trying to gauge improvements to my bike fit myself. Not suffering any issues pain wise on my current setup but do feel a spot over reached on my 100mm stem. Annoying i was right between frame sizes on my current bike and have "made do" since buying it, again without much issue. But want to see if I can improve it further
 
I have just replaced the 1.9kg DT swiss oems wheels that came on my canyon endurace with some zipp 303's i got them in a sale from start fitness and got an extra 10% off as a new customer which brought them down to £750, had my first ride out on then and wow it feels so much nicer out on the road.


Best thing about carbon wheels, in my opinion, is the noise they make. Never gets old
 
You building it up as a gravel or road bike?

Aiming for mainly road for now. Has a 2x groupset but with a 10-36 cassette to help on hills.

Tyres are 28mm Gravel King Plus so more focused on the road.

99% of riding is road so seems daft to not focus on that. However, Aim is to add a wheelset with some 38/40mm gravel tyres in the future so it’s easy to switch between both options.

First attempt building from scratch so aim is do all I can and then maybe drop off with a local highly regarded mechanic to fettle to ensure everything’s spot on.
 
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Aiming for mainly road for now. Has a 2x groupset but with a 10-36 cassette to help on hills.

Tyres are 28mm Gravel King Plus so more focused on the road.

99% of riding is road so seems daft to not focus on that. However, Aim is to add a wheelset with some 38/40mm gravel tyres in the future so it’s easy to switch between both options.

First attempt building from scratch so aim is do all I can and then maybe drop off with a local highly regarded mechanic to fettle to ensure everything’s spot on.

Sounds good. Never sure how much gravel riding there is in the UK vs somewhere like the US
 
True. Especially as I’ll be in Spain soon. The trails there seem very rocky based on the running I’ve done off road there so that needs a full suspension bike.

I’ve not yet started that discussion….
 
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Think I've just managed my best Facebook mkt place bargain yet!

Was browsing looking for some new shoes. I've been riding my road bikes for years with MTB clip in pedals and shoes, so thought now this year it's time to finally make the jump to proper road shoes, pedals and cleats.

I have a pair of quite well worn 105 5800 pedals that came with my bike from the prev owner which I intended to use.

Saw a bloke who lived 20 mins away selling some bontrager velosis shoes, brand new unused in my size for 60 pounds.

Seeing as most other shoes I had been looking at retail didn't match up spec wise for the money I thought I'd take punt.

Went to see him, tried them on and decided to have them as they were comfy, fit well and were brand new as he had said. He then also threw in some bontrager elite spd pedals and some look keo cleats also brand new as he had no use for them!

He works for Trek graphics design team, hence all the gear as he often gets bits from work every year when he buys a new bike. These came with his recent road bike which he has now changed more to gravel bike spec so rides it with MTB clips instead.

Chuffed.
 
******* had assumed the crankset would come with a bottom bracket but no such luck.

Hopefully my LBS has them as Merlín is out of stock.
 
Also, first attempt at lunch to install folding tyres after i'd done the rim tape.
I think I need to get better plastic tyre levers, which don't slip on rim, leverage well and clip securely on spokes for removal.

subsequently realised your cranks have power meters, so maybe no bottom bracket because such cranks typically an upgrade ?
derailleur is the e-force one then - every off I've had ends up scraping derailleur, so think I'd need some protection on a $$$ derailleur.
 
Surely somewhere online can do a nexy day Delivery for Saturday?

I do hate hitting a snag when looking forward to something though, so i feel your pain

Yeah, but at £6.99 delivery fee which is annoying for a ~£30 item. Might stump up though, as without it i can't do the cranks, which then means no front derailleur and therefore can't index gears.

I think I need to get better plastic tyre levers, which don't slip on rim, leverage well and clip securely on spokes for removal.

subsequently realised your cranks have power meters, so maybe no bottom bracket because such cranks typically an upgrade ?
derailleur is the e-force one then - every off I've had ends up scraping derailleur, so think I'd need some protection on a $$$ derailleur.


Yeah, could be the reason, especially as the groupset didn't include the crankset, maybe if it was a complete bundle it'd be included, but then with so many different standards it makes sense to be separate. Just something i hadn't thought about.
Scratches don't worry me much, although i have eyed up the clear wrap film.



Also, i went for the integrated handlebars/stem thinking i'd get a really clean look, but now the frame is here, realised it's not setup for full internal routing, so will still have a little cable on show where it exits the front of the frame. Luckily only the brake hoses though.
 
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