Thoughts on Excessive Speed

[Hotwired]

Hmm?

This was referenced earlier if you have doubts about speed increasing deaths: https://etsc.eu/autobahn-speed-limit-would-save-140-lives/

It's the germans.

 

[Dis86]

It's literally in black and white in the document. The difference is, you chose to pick out one particular part of it and focus on it, rather than looking at it fully.

• More than half of all road traffic deaths are among vulnerable road users: pedestrians, cyclists, and motorcyclists.
• 93% of the world's fatalities on the roads occur in low- and middle-income countries, even though these countries have approximately 60% of the world's vehicles.

The document is also over 10 years old. You brought up that rubbish stat, you've been called out on it twice now, why should others have to disprove you?

Provide a source that shows driving at 100mph instead of 50mph in the uk is safer.
Put up. Or shut up.

 

[Dis86]

Hmm?

This was referenced earlier if you have doubts about speed increasing deaths: https://etsc.eu/autobahn-speed-limit-would-save-140-lives/

It's the germans.

Shhh, they feel that those rules wouldn't apply in the uk cos...reasons.

 

[ChrisD.]

Provide a source that shows driving at 100mph instead of 50mph in the uk is safer.
Put up. Or shut up.

Please show me where I said that?

I said the document you linked isn't particularly valid for the UK. Therefore doing 100 vs 50 does not mean 4x more likely to have a fatal crash. Which is what you said!

Show me stats which are valid for the UK, and stats which include fatigue over time.

Put up or shut up.

 

[Gibbo]

Exactly this, my mrs can do an 11 hour flight from San Fran, then get in her car and drive 1h30 home. She hates it, and I hate it, it's horrendous.

I’ve done the land in LA and then drive to Vegas was not fun at all. As a result the Germans hired me the latest Range Rover with amazing fancy LED lights and driver assist as was a lot of night driving, also did most of that trip at 100mph to try and reduce the travel time as we were all very tired.

Now of course I’d never dream of doing 90-100 for sustained periods in my Corvette or mothers Skoda Citigo as just feel that either in an accident would not fair well, same for Caterham. You crash it’s gonna bloody hurt!

Whereas in any modern saloon they are far safer but that’s the issue I’ll be travelling along a motorway at say 90 and someone will come past flat out at 100ish in their tiny city car and you just think to yourself if they need to stop fast they have little chance of doing so.

I think in the U.K. that is one of the biggest issues we have is common sense, speed in isolation is not dangerous what makes it’s dangerous is the moron behind the wheel either doing speed in an unsafe vehicle or speeding whilst not paying attention.

I drove from Berlin to Munich and did 210kmh in all the de-restricted zones the only reason I did not go faster was because in Germany in Winter on Winter tyres the maximum legal speed is 210kmh but again going this fast reduced journey time considerably, the owner was not too happy that he had to fill the tank three times on the way down however.

 

[ChrisD.]

Shhh, they feel that those rules wouldn't apply in the uk cos...reasons.

Again, that link does not say twice the speed limit = 4x more likely to be fatal. You said that.

 

[200sols]

Accidents many are caused by tired drivers and a 6hr journey is far more tiring than 3hrs that is a fact.

Also 50 years ago an accident at 100mph in a car would be fatal or very high chance whereas today in a modern car an accident at 100mph is far less likely to be fatal.

I’d say tired drivers are far more at risk of having an accident than tired drivers.

When traffic allows on longer trips I would always tend to do 90-100mph on the motorway because it could easily reduce my journey time by hour plus. I tend to do just 80mph now due to higher traffic and cameras.

I’ve just always personally felt that been tired behind the wheel is far more dangerous than speeding especially on a motorway.

Excess speed actually aggravates other factors like driving while tired.

Also speeding is a direct cause of 27%~ deaths on the road and you can expect that to increase in the coming years. Its not the small issue you think it is, I'll caveat that most deaths occur on slower limit roads rather than motorways but still even on motorways there is a direct correlation between speed and risk of death.

A new system to be introduced by the National Police Chiefs’s Council will result in speeding being reported as a contributing factor in vastly increased numbers of road accidents.

Official accident statistics are currently based only on police reports from the scene of a collision and ignore later investigations. As a result, out of the UK’s 1,500 deaths each year on the road, fewer than 400 are currently recorded as in any way related to excessive speed.

Instead, current reports suggest the biggest cause of road deaths is poor observation, with the second biggest cause being ‘loss of control’. Excess speed and driver carelessness come equal third.

In future, instead of reporting causes from the scene of an accident, police forces are being told to adjust their reports to include all the analysis from post-accident investigations, which may often include forensic evidence of speeding.

Under the new reporting scheme the Metropolitan Police force found speeding should have been included as a contributory factor in almost half of all traffic accidents. In a review it revised its 2020 figure from 19.1 to 46.8 per cent, including cases where the driver exceeded the limit or simply drove too fast for the conditions, the Times has reported.

 

[Dis86]

Please show me where I said that?

I said the document you linked isn't particularly valid for the UK. Therefore doing 100 vs 50 does not mean 4x more likely to have a fatal crash. Which is what you said!

Show me stats which are valid for the UK, and stats which include fatigue over time.

Put up or shut up.

You said that by claiming that my directly quoted figures from the WHO are wrong.
You've posted nothing to support your opinion or counter mine.
You're now claiming fatigue is the bigger problem, then post stats to prove it. Do something to actually back up your argument.

Prove the claim that driving at 100 is not as dangerous as driving at 50 for the same distance.

 

[200sols]

Which is what you said!

Its actually what the WHO said, remember you also put other road users at risk not just yourself in your car and this is a factor as well.

If you can counter their claims with evidence then fine but until then I'm sorry to say I'll believe their evidence based facts rather than what you believe to be true despite not presenting any supporting evidence.

 

[dave28]

i have predicted the deaths of people from witnessing their reckless speeding.

i guess like everyone else who dies in car crashes they did not think speeding would result in their own deaths.

one i went to school with, he was a boy racer and died in a Clio Williams. Burnt alive so they say.
not long before the crash me and a friend were talking about how he was going to die in a car crash.
police said he was well over the speed limit and lost control almost killing the other people in the car he collided with.

the other was a biker who was hammering it about the place like he was God

both were early 20`s

 

[Gibbo]

Excess speed actually aggravates other factors like driving while tired.

Also speeding is a direct cause of 27%~ deaths on the road and you can expect that to increase in the coming years. Its not the small issue you think it is, I'll caveat that most deaths occur on slower limit roads rather than motorways but still even on motorways there is a direct correlation between speed and risk of death.

Not sure I agree shaving 1-2 hours from a journey by using speed means your off the road at the point your likely to be most tired, which I feel is very valid, certainly to me and how I feel behind the wheel when tiredness sets in.

So if I can reduce a 5hr journey to 4hr or even 3hrs results in me not having to drive an additional hour or two when I’m likely to be at my most tiredness.

I also find driving at speed keeps tiredness at bay as I’m more alert but that is just me.

Nothing worse than been bored due to low speed and then been tired that is when concentration lapses and mistakes happen for myself personally anyway.

 

[ChrisD.]

Driving at 50. Speeding increases fatal accident rates by four. So...yeah that was a perfect example of highlighting why speeding is bad.

Its actually what the WHO said, remember you also put other road users at risk not just yourself in your car and this is a factor as well.

He posted it, then used the WHO report to back it up when called out on it by @DRZ. A report based on, you know, the entire world. Including Africa, South America, Russia, Mongolia etc, where in parts the roads are absolutely horrendous, cars are unsafe, and you have people riding motorbikes without helmets. A far cry from UK motorways in modern and much safer cars which is what @Gibbo was alluding to.

Still waiting on this 4x more likely to die statistic for the UK.

Personally I think I would be safer doing 100 mph in the outer lane of a UK motorway if conditions allowed, compared to 50 mph when fatigued and dodging trucks and people joining and exiting the motorway. Not that I do that often, most of the time I just sit at 65-70, when most people are doing 80+ anyway, 6 foot from the car in front.

 

[NVP]

Some truth to this but let me give a more realistic scenario.

You have 300 miles of motorway to drive and conditions are ideal.

So you can drive entire stretch at 100mph and it takes three hours.
Or you can drive at 50mph and it take six hours.

So be on the road for three hours VS six hours.

Which is safer?

This is not a justification for speeding but is a very valid point as your halving your time behind the wheel and as such reducing the risk to yourself and others, the downside is your more at risk due to the speed your doing.

Bit of a lame example considering real world you'd be aiming at 140mph+, but perhaps that figure highlights the absurdity that going faster reduces risk

This is coming from someone who'd regularly do 200+ during my stupid 20s, not some speed limit activist.


E: Oh, I see the point you were trying to make:

Not sure I agree shaving 1-2 hours from a journey by using speed means your off the road at the point your likely to be most tired, which I feel is very valid, certainly to me and how I feel behind the wheel when tiredness sets in.

So if I can reduce a 5hr journey to 4hr or even 3hrs results in me not having to drive an additional hour or two when I’m likely to be at my most tiredness.

I also find driving at speed keeps tiredness at bay as I’m more alert but that is just me.

Nothing worse than been bored due to low speed and then been tired that is when concentration lapses and mistakes happen for myself personally anyway.

You're best grabbing some caffeine and not risking other road users.

 

[Gibbo]

Bit of a lame example considering real world you'd be aiming at 140mph+, but perhaps that figure highlights the absurdity that going faster reduces risk

This is coming from someone who'd regularly do 200+ during my stupid 20s, not some speed limit activist.

On a de restricted autobahn it was perfectly safe I’d have gone faster if the car was not on Winter tires and it was Summer months. It also meant we shaved 1-2hr of a long journey and it also meant we were not driving at night due to shaving of so much time.

I hated the thought of having to drive under darkness on roads I’ve never driven before so in this case the extra speed got us to our destination just as it was going dark and shave upto two hours from the journey.

As such excess speed for me was safer than extending the journey by considerable time and having to drive in the dark.

 

[ChrisD.]

On a de restricted autobahn it was perfectly safe I’d have gone faster if the car was not on Winter tires and it was Summer months. It also meant we shaved 1-2hr of a long journey and it also meant we were not driving at night due to shaving of so much time.

I hated the thought of having to drive under darkness on roads I’ve never driven before so in this case the extra speed got us to our destination just as it was going dark and shave upto two hours from the journey.

Also in Germany, no cats eyes, which make covering ground at night quite a different experience.

 

[Gibbo]

He posted it, then used the WHO report to back it up when called out on it by @DRZ. A report based on, you know, the entire world. Including Africa, South America, Russia, Mongolia etc, where in parts the roads are absolutely horrendous, cars are unsafe, and you have people riding motorbikes without helmets. A far cry from UK motorways in modern and much safer cars which is what @Gibbo was alluding to.

Still waiting on this 4x more likely to die statistic for the UK.

Personally I think I would be safer doing 100 mph in the outer lane of a UK motorway if conditions allowed, compared to 50 mph when fatigued and dodging trucks and people joining and exiting the motorway. Not that I do that often, most of the time I just sit at 65-70, when most people are doing 80+ anyway, 6 foot from the car in front.

Totally agreed Chris, 100 in outside lane on a motorway when allows and reducing journey time so you’re not fatigued I agree is safer than doing 50 fatigued and been over taken by trucks and generally amongst more traffic. Certainly for me anyway.

In a 30 I do 30.
Same for a 40/50 etc.

NSL if I know it and conditions allow I have fun.

Motorway if a long journey I will cruise around 90 where possible.

If I get caught fair enough take my punishment and move on, but I’ve been pulled for some pretty high speeds and let off or just caught up with and given the slow down gesture but I’m never reckless or take risk. Just like some NSL roads you’d be bonkers to go over 30/40 down but some NSL roads are also safe to go much faster.

 

[Gibbo]

Also in Germany, no cats eyes, which make covering ground at night quite a different experience.

Yes the last 30-40 mins drive in dusk and driving in Germany at night is horrid I was also in a Porsche Cayenne which had woeful headlights so I was glad to have done 140mph most the way, for me speed was far safer as it cut down massively on journey time which all of would been in darkness.

 

[NVP]

As such excess speed for me was safer than extending the journey by considerable time and having to drive in the dark.

Lol I think you're only able to justify that to yourself with the strange logic that you'd be doing 50 on motorways otherwise, rather than taking tiredness breaks.

Edit: FYI those Mango Loco energy drinks will stop you risking other road users, and they're tasty too.

 

[Gibbo]

Lol I think you're only able to justify that to yourself with the strange logic that you'd be doing 50 on motorways otherwise, rather than taking tiredness breaks.

Edit: FYI those Mango Loco energy drinks will stop you risking other road users, and they're tasty too.

Depends where I’m going but I’d rather drive at speed in daylight rather then extend journey time and then drive in darkness. If I’m doing a long drive there is always a good stock of energy drinks.

Generally most U.K. motorways you are only doing 50-60 these days anyway in fairness due to traffic flow at which point I just flow. Only and if only it’s quiet I’ll go at my own flow of speed.

 

[NVP]

Ah ok, so never on the well lit UK motorway network then I guess?