Thoughts on Excessive Speed

[Conscript]

This is where the type of vehicle makes a huge difference.

100 is easy these days and doesn't require much more concentration, it's when speeds get significantly higher that your concentration increases fatigue. As long as you know your stopping rate at the speeds you're going then you can mitigate it slightly, but the risk ratio is still heavily weighted towards dangerous.

Agreed, the type of vehicle can make it more comfortable and less tedious, and less physical effort to drive at higher speed - but I maintain that as the speed goes up, so does your need to concentrate on external factors much more.

Fairly regularly I do a 100-mile trip to my parents almost entirely on motorway/DC, and even if I do it in our Kia Sorento (big diesel SUV, quiet, soft, comfy, etc) which is physically much more relaxing to drive at high speeds than my own car, I still tend to only cruise at 70MPH. Going much faster, I still find myself mentally concentrating much more - what other vehicles are doing, closing speeds, passing speeds, checking slip roads as I approach, thinking about speed cameras/vans, etc - all of that takes more mental effort as you go faster, I find. I could do the journey at 100MPH and knock 40 minutes off it, but even though it would be "easy" in that car, I still think I'd arrive a bit drained. Perhaps it's subjective, but I reckon even if you put me in a Rolls Royce, I'd still only cruise between 70-80MPH.

But I've also done the same journey in a 20-year old 1 litre Yaris with only a cassette deck for company, and that was pretty tiresome at anything over 60MPH

 

[Haggisman]

This is where the type of vehicle makes a huge difference.

100 is easy these days and doesn't require much more concentration, it's when speeds get significantly higher that your concentration increases fatigue. As long as you know your stopping rate at the speeds you're going then you can mitigate it slightly, but the risk ratio is still heavily weighted towards dangerous.

By travelling 40% faster, you're still reducing the time you have to safely react by ~40%. A quick Google suggests the average reaction time is 250ms (1/4s).

At 70mph that's ~8m covered + braking distance of 75m
At 100mph that's ~11.5m covered + braking distance of 152m

(figures above from here: https://www.random-science-tools.com/physics/stopping-distance.htm)

To make it interesting, I found this page which gives the results for a Porsche Cayman GT4, which has probably got better stopping power than 99% of cars on the road, which gives braking distances of ~40m @ 70mph and 73m @ 100mph.

I can't be bothered to do the exact calculations on what speed you would still be travelling at the 48m point (where you would have stopped at 70) if you were doing 100mph instead of 70mph, but best case scenario and you're driving the Porsche, based on the graph in the link above, and adjusting for the extra 3.5m reaction time it looks like around 30-40mph. Hitting something at that point still gives you a pretty good chance of survival in a modern car, but it's unlikely to just T-Cut out...

What speed would you be still be doing in a normal car at the ~83m point if you were doing 100mph instead of 70mph?

How much does being tired increase reaction time & stopping distance by in comparison?

Going much faster, I still find myself mentally concentrating much more - what other vehicles are doing, closing speeds, passing speeds, checking slip roads as I approach, thinking about speed cameras/vans, etc - all of that takes more mental effort as you go faster, I find.

Of course it does - you're having to increase the area you need to monitor - driving at 30mph, the stopping distance is 23m, so you only need to closely* assess hazards in that distance. At 70mph that's 96m, so you have over 4x the distance ahead which you have to watch. At 100mph, that increases to 152m, almost 7x the distance.

Its getting pretty tense in here.
Lets all play a game....

What's the fastest you have gotten to on UK motorways?

Lots of interesting points being made in here though.

In my early 20s, I managed to get my mum's 1.7 diesel Astra estate to 3 figures on the M4 at 3am once (I think it must have been down hill with a tailwind) driving to pick up my GF at the time from Stansted after her flight was cancelled. A week or so later my mum calls saying there's a letter from the police for me...

Fortunately they'd clocked me doing 53 in a temporary 40 zone, so just 3 points/£60 rather than the court & ban I was expecting!

That was enough to put me off, and since then I've stuck to the limit**


* it goes without saying that you still need to watch for things developing on the road further ahead

** other than the odd occasion when overtaking, where IMO it's safer to temporarily exceed the limit to complete the overtake quickly and minimise time spent on the wrong side of the road.

 

[DavidTJ]

So I was fairly cavalier about it, though never owned a fast car so 100 has been the max.

Never for more than a few miles always on a motorway outside lane clear ahead (so not really sure where the extra fatigue or concentration comes in)

Cars are obviously much safer at higher speeds than when motorways were first built. (More traction, better brakes etc)

However I am a bit less cavalier now and probably never really go above 75.

The rush should be gotten from track days, rollercoasters etc

Reaction speeds haven't improved.

Too many distracted drivers.

The time gained is minimal, and I would easily waste it browsing random things on my phone

 

[Scania]

I’m not particularly surprised at the levels of damage and equally wouldn’t be that surprised we’re the impact speed not relatively that high, basically there’s two things out on the roads that are pretty much guaranteed to not give no matter what hits them, namely trees and bridge supports.

I’ve seen an obliterated HGV that hit a bridge support at 42 mph - it wasn’t loaded nor “flat out” - same for a few cars and vans over the years.

Basically because the support won’t give whatsoever the impact energy is transferred to the colliding vehicle with catastrophic consequences as we see in these images.

I don’t particularly like Reddit as there seems to be little to no moderation.

On the other hand, if people actually saw the reality of road traffic collisions rather than being shielded from the horrors that can result maybe a few drivers would think twice before putting their foot down….

 

[Nasher]

Surely everyone who has bought a performance car has properly stretched it's legs at some point and lived a little.

 

[Thekwango]

Surely everyone who has bought a performance car has properly stretched it's legs at some point and lived a little.

you'd have thought and hoped so - no point letting all that oomph go to waste. i think the issue some of us have is that there's folk now just posting nonsense to justify driving over the speed limit.

 

[Building Candy]

Surely everyone who has bought a performance car has properly stretched it's legs at some point and lived a little.

what.... and lived to tell the tale?

Seems to me if a "super car" does actually crash its all over the news, compare that to the hundreds of "normal car" crashes.

I would say doing 100 in a mclaren is safer than 100 in a corsa.

 

[Nasher]

what.... and lived to tell the tale?

Seems to me if a "super car" does actually crash its all over the news, compare that to the hundreds of "normal car" crashes.

I would say doing 100 in a mclaren is safer than 100 in a corsa.

People are encouraged to ride bicycles on the road and you are more likely to do yourself in on that and far less likely to survive a collision.

 

[Maccy]

Certainly some interesting viewpoints in this thread.

 

[jpaul]

i imagine having auto braking will be a big help as well..... the car may react quicker than a driver.

seems if you have forward radar it's good for 200m,

At 100mph that's ~11.5m covered + braking distance of 152m

so, may need to be watching at faster speeds too, even if auto-braking would have reduced impact speed (Thelma & Louise excepted, or, big pot hole)

 

[DRZ]

as the speed goes up, so does your need to concentrate on external factors much more.

Absolutely, it does. In purely operating the car terms, 70 vs 100 on a motorway isn't massively different in something like a modern BMW 5 Series, where 100mph is very much well inside the car's dynamic envelope. 100 vs 70 is then just a human problem, with concentration workload on a busy road wildly higher at 100 than 70 but on a quiet road they are roughly the same. Picking a speed that is suitable for the conditions isn't different because it is a motorway, just the factors are different vs a regular road. If there was a binary choice between sustaining a fixed 50 vs 100 for an imaginary journey with the average UK motorway traffic load in average UK weather, I'd choose 50mph. In ideal conditions with very quiet roads and no speed cameras I'd choose 100mph.

Past 100, things just become exponentially more difficult. Driving at 150mph on a motorway is all-consuming as the car (any car - supercar or not) requires you to actively drive it to be safe. Bends become corners you need to brake for, car balance on the throttle becomes very important to actually be able to corner etc etc. As I posted earlier in the thread, I have sustained these sorts of speeds for an hour or so and I was much, much more tired than if I'd done twice the time at 75mph.

 

[Housey]

Do you really need a fast car, even if you are driving on track?

The answer is probably no, but if need was the only metric in life it would be very boring.

I want a performance car because I can take enjoyment from it and that comes in many forms, but hardly ever involves me carrying BIG speeds for long periods of time even in Germany. I consider myself a highly experienced driver which is not really about the length of time I have driven or even the miles. For me it's more about the types of cars, the circumstances in which I have driven them and how often as well as my experience of performance and my ability to understand better than most (because I've been through experience the way things happen at speed) through learning. I also have a natuarally risk adverse mindset being the wheel of a car, more so with age. I don't get red mist events anymore, they are consigned to the past.

BUT, putting all of that to one side I would say the biggest thing about being a good driver is when you are behind the wheel the first thing you are doing is driving that car and accounting for those around you in their cars. I see so many people (as a passenger or on the road) who to me seem to be focused on 100 other things than the act of driving and those people (most people I fear) are REALLY dangerous when you add speed. They don't account for others, they never read situations and they never pay attention to much the car is telling them. The car pulling out 500 yards away is a big event at 180mph.

I have sat at 200mph (it is a proper event, anything over 160mph gets serious) and have driven a lot of different high performance cars. I don't however carry big speed on the roads, I may go there and come down on occasion and enjoy a nice flowing road at 'some' speed but again its about how you do that really. I am human so prone to mistakes like anyone and certainly not some epic road racer/racing driver. I just have a sense of what you need to focus on when in a fast car at speed, where I suspect most are pretty clueless really. The most important thing about big speed is circumstance. If that is wrong, big speed is the act of the idiot.

Speed rarely kills, bad driving, human error and mechanical issues are the main culprit. Final point is about your measure of performance. When you are used to a car that will top 100mph in less than 7 seconds and within .5 of second of a McLaren F1 the ability to go fast really quickly also needs comprehending. Getting to 100mph for me is a few seconds, from 70mph I can be at 100mph in less than 2 seconds. It is truly effortless as I can go from 70mph to 100 and back to 70 by the time most cars are still accelerating to 100 from 70.

 

[Gibbo]

Perhaps leaving early enough to give yourself enough time to complete the journey whilst travelling within the speed limits of whatever country you are in would be better.

Yeah I will ask the pilot to also fly faster.

 

[Gibbo]

that's got nothing to do with my post. you admitted to driving faster, while tired, to shorten your journey while previously stating a lack of comon sense was one of the biggest issues with UK motorists. just re read what you posted and have a think about it - i'm tired and i have a car journey to make, so the comon sense thing is to hoof it on to shorten the time spent driving, while tired. that's basically what you've said and that shows zero comon sense, imo.

comon sense seems to be quite lacking in most of what you've posted thus far.

I enjoy the danger.
I don't write so clear but in short if for whatever reason I've not been able to set of earlier but it is possible to get to my destination within daylight, I will drive faster as long as I feel its safe, night driving takes more concentration and is more tiring to me than driving fast during daytime, anyway whatever I am doing cannot be that dangerous, I am still alive and accident free, also free from points too.

 

[panthro]

Do you really need a fast car, even if you are driving on track?

The answer is probably no, but if need was the only metric in life it would be very boring.

I want a performance car because I can take enjoyment from it and that comes in many forms, but hardly ever involves me carrying BIG speeds for long periods of time even in Germany. I consider myself a highly experienced driver which is not really about the length of time I have driven or even the miles. For me it's more about the types of cars, the circumstances in which I have driven them and how often as well as my experience of performance and my ability to understand better than most (because I've been through experience the way things happen at speed) through learning. I also have a natuarally risk adverse mindset being the wheel of a car, more so with age. I don't get red mist events anymore, they are consigned to the past.

BUT, putting all of that to one side I would say the biggest thing about being a good driver is when you are behind the wheel the first thing you are doing is driving that car and accounting for those around you in their cars. I see so many people (as a passenger or on the road) who to me seem to be focused on 100 other things than the act of driving and those people (most people I fear) are REALLY dangerous when you add speed. They don't account for others, they never read situations and they never pay attention to much the car is telling them. The car pulling out 500 yards away is a big event at 180mph.

I have sat at 200mph (it is a proper event, anything over 160mph gets serious) and have driven a lot of different high performance cars. I don't however carry big speed on the roads, I may go there and come down on occasion and enjoy a nice flowing road at 'some' speed but again its about how you do that really. I am human so prone to mistakes like anyone and certainly not some epic road racer/racing driver. I just have a sense of what you need to focus on when in a fast car at speed, where I suspect most are pretty clueless really. The most important thing about big speed is circumstance. If that is wrong, big speed is the act of the idiot.

Speed rarely kills, bad driving, human error and mechanical issues are the main culprit. Final point is about your measure of performance. When you are used to a car that will top 100mph in less than 7 seconds and within .5 of second of a McLaren F1 the ability to go fast really quickly also needs comprehending. Getting to 100mph for me is a few seconds, from 70mph I can be at 100mph in less than 2 seconds. It is truly effortless as I can go from 70mph to 100 and back to 70 by the time most cars are still accelerating to 100 from 70.

So for me, I am not an experienced driver other than having driven for 20 odd years. I have never taken any sort of advanced driving courses or track tuition. I would like to though, where do I start?

 

[Gibbo]

Absolutely, it does. In purely operating the car terms, 70 vs 100 on a motorway isn't massively different in something like a modern BMW 5 Series, where 100mph is very much well inside the car's dynamic envelope. 100 vs 70 is then just a human problem, with concentration workload on a busy road wildly higher at 100 than 70 but on a quiet road they are roughly the same. Picking a speed that is suitable for the conditions isn't different because it is a motorway, just the factors are different vs a regular road. If there was a binary choice between sustaining a fixed 50 vs 100 for an imaginary journey with the average UK motorway traffic load in average UK weather, I'd choose 50mph. In ideal conditions with very quiet roads and no speed cameras I'd choose 100mph.

Past 100, things just become exponentially more difficult. Driving at 150mph on a motorway is all-consuming as the car (any car - supercar or not) requires you to actively drive it to be safe. Bends become corners you need to brake for, car balance on the throttle becomes very important to actually be able to corner etc etc. As I posted earlier in the thread, I have sustained these sorts of speeds for an hour or so and I was much, much more tired than if I'd done twice the time at 75mph.

This to me 100 VS 70 on a quiet motorway is has no additional mental impact to me, likewise same for 100 VS 50, but anything beyond well each additional 10mph seems to really highlight the need for concentration. It is also vehicle dependent as well, 90mph in my Corvette feels like your living on lives edge and the sheer concentration is huge, in the Caterham the opposite the elements are battering you and the noise is deafening you, in both of these cars I feel 50-60mph is the sweet spot for what I'd call an enjoyable long distance drive and when I come across a 40-50mph roads works area I have a sigh of relief.

But step in the Alfa or the Mclaren and all of a sudden 100 feels very mundane and tame, to the point it feels little difference to doing 50mph and thus no additional concentration, now of course one would only be doing such speed on an empty or very quiet motorway, once you start adding in traffic then it is safer to just drive with the flow of the traffic, trying to go faster is dangerous and upsets other drivers, plus takes a lot more mental concentration and thus will add to fatigue levels. But if the conditions allow in the right car driving faster is no more fatiguing than driving slower, at least for myself and the less time spent driving means I am less at risk as are other drivers.

 

[DRZ]

So for me, I am not an experienced driver other than having driven for 20 odd years. I have never taken any sort of advanced driving courses or track tuition. I would like to though, where do I start?

You will have an IAM/RoSPA group in your local area. This is a great place to start if you want to improve your road driving. There's other companies that deliver these things more formally or have access to facilities where you can explore the limits of your car in a safe environment which isn't all that expensive in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Gibbo]

So for me, I am not an experienced driver other than having driven for 20 odd years. I have never taken any sort of advanced driving courses or track tuition. I would like to though, where do I start?

Supercar experience day
Jonathon Palmer day
Caterham drifting day
Millbrook advance driving day
Porsche skidpan day
Mercedes Benz World driving
Lotus Hethel experience

Pretty much every car manufacturer runs some sort of track / advance skill tuition days that anyone can book, there are also tracks throughout the country also all running experience days, drift, track, advance etc.

Also Gokarting, they all help and aid in car control, particular when stuff goes wrong. Try to get time with an ex police and racing driver, both totally different driving styles but both totally valuable at been safer on the road even with speed.

The biggest driving tip I can give and share to anyone is look ahead, very far ahead, the mistake of majority of drivers is they only look at the next corner coming up or even worse just six foot ahead of the car.

 

[Thekwango]

Speed rarely kills, bad driving, human error and mechanical issues are the main culprit.

it is almost always the speed that kills though. speed may not have caused the accident but it is it which will cause the fatalities.

 

[Zeebedy]

it is almost always the speed that kills though. speed may not have caused the accident but it is it which will cause the fatalities.

like said before mate, we just need to let it go!

we are the bad drivers here by the looks of it!