Thoughts on Excessive Speed

How happy would those who excessively and regularly break the UK speed limit on motorways be if the UK Govt. decided to derestrict them totally? I'd wager not that happy as you'd have every Tom, Rich, and Harry thinking they can now drive as fast as they like, making the roads a much more dangerous place to be for everyone. I'll also guarantee you this, a vast number of those who think they are 'excellent drivers' because they have a fast car will be actually the exact opposite.

I say go for it, I mean after all who really cares a single human life is worthless, or 10, or 100... or a million planet is over populated anyhow.
 
Housey said:
But please, carry on, tell me what else I am not doing.
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that's the first time i've noticed you admit speed is a factor in the outcome of a crash. you'll have to forgive me as your previous posts seemed to indicate your opinion was otherwise.
Thekwango said:
it is almost always the speed that kills though. speed may not have caused the accident but it is it which will cause the fatalities.
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Housey said:
It isn't by most measures.
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Housey said:
Speed is rarely a cause
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Housey said:
So speed is not a relevant factor then.
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i've tried to debate and reply as fairly and honestly as i can in this thread but i'm not sre the same can be said of others. i've simply pointed out when people claim speed isn't an issue/relevant factor etc that that isn't really the case. i'm not here to tell people how to drive, or what speed they should drive at. but if someone wants to claim that luck has no part in driving or speed isn't a relevant factor then i'll disagree with them.
 
Impossible to have unrestricted roads in the UK really. Driving standards are just too low and we can't get lane control right at 40mph what hope do we have at 150mph.

When we had no speed limits most cars ran out of puss at 80mph anyway.
 
The first motorway was unrestricted until manufacturers decided to use it as a free speed testing ground :/

Knee-jerk policy making has always ruined fun in the UK.
 
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Thekwango said:
that's the first time i've noticed you admit speed is a factor in the outcome of a crash. you'll have to forgive me as your previous posts seemed to indicate your opinion was otherwise.








i've tried to debate and reply as fairly and honestly as i can in this thread but i'm not sre the same can be said of others. i've simply pointed out when people claim speed isn't an issue/relevant factor etc that that isn't really the case. i'm not here to tell people how to drive, or what speed they should drive at. but if someone wants to claim that luck has no part in driving or speed isn't a relevant factor then i'll disagree with them.
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No, what you are doing it elevating the output of the drivers actions over the drivers actions. A car does nothing without the driver (yea I get driverless cars etc) so the cause starts and ends there for its all under the contol of the driver.

Speed, is not a cause, it is however a massive impact on outcome. So this refutes your point that I do not agree on either point. I do not agree on 1 of your 2 points. It's fine if you don't agree with me, I can live with that, but at least quote me correctly with context.
 
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This has been a fantastic argument to read


'Speed is not a cause'
"but it is speed that can turn an accident fatal"
'no, speed isn't a cause'
"but it is speed that can turn an accident fatal"
'no, speed isn't a cause'

...

:p
 
Housey said:
No, what you are doing it elevating the output of the drivers actions over the drivers actions. A car does nothing without the driver (yea I get driverless cars etc) so the cause starts and ends there for its all under the contol of the driver.

Speed, is not a cause, it is however a massive impact on outcome. So this refutes your point that I do not agree on either point. I do not agree on 1 of your 2 points. It's fine if you don't agree with me, I can live with that, but at least quote me correctly with context.
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I mean the people who study accidents literally classify speed as a cause!


"When asked to identify other factors which had caused or contributed to the crash, officers attributed excess speed as a causation factor in 14% of crashes and inappropriate speed (such as loss of control) in a further 32%."
 
Dis86 said:
I mean the people who study accidents literally classify speed as a cause!


"When asked to identify other factors which had caused or contributed to the crash, officers attributed excess speed as a causation factor in 14% of crashes and inappropriate speed (such as loss of control) in a further 32%."
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Excess speed is by definition excessive. Nobody is arguing for excessive speed - you should never be driving at a speed that is excessive. I bet in those 14/32% scenarios the speed wasn't the sole factor.
 
100 mph used to be my cruising speed on motorways around 10 years ago. Younger, invincibility complex and over familiarity with the routes I'd regularly drive were the cause. Didn't matter what the driving conditions were, if I wasn't doing 100 I'd be raging at the person holding me up.

I've worked in Motor insurance for the last 7 years, I'm a finance bod, I don't handle claims but as part of my role I do see the detailed information on the really big claims. You know what a really big claim looks like for a motor insurer? Its not somebody passing away, its that 18 year old that is now crippled for life, relying on round the clock care for the next 60 years just to keep him alive with barely a fraction of what would be considered normal cognitive ability. Worst claim I ever saw was some 3 year old, passenger in a third party vehicle that was hit from behind - he'll require 24/7 care for the rest of his existence, likely to live another 60+ years, his life ruined, his parents lives ruined, the person who hit him life is ruined...

I've never been one to see driving as fun like a lot of people do, for me its a method of getting from A to B, but I don't drive anywhere near the limits of my ability or road conditions anymore.
 
DRZ said:
Excess speed is by definition excessive. Nobody is arguing for excessive speed - you should never be driving at a speed that is excessive. I bet in those 14/32% scenarios the speed wasn't the sole factor.
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Yes but excess speed is still speed. And it doesn't matter if it isn't the sole factor. All you have to do to often break the chain of causation is remove one link.

Still waiting for a single source from those arguing speeding doesn't cause accidents. Just one.
 
Rids said:
I've worked in Motor insurance for the last 7 years, I'm a finance bod, I don't handle claims but as part of my role I do see the detailed information on the really big claims. You know what a really big claim looks like for a motor insurer? Its not somebody passing away, its that 18 year old that is now crippled for life, relying on round the clock care for the next 60 years just to keep him alive with barely a fraction of what would be considered normal cognitive ability. Worst claim I ever saw was some 3 year old, passenger in a third party vehicle that was hit from behind - he'll require 24/7 care for the rest of his existence, likely to live another 60+ years, his life ruined, his parents lives ruined, the person who hit him life is ruined...
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I've never seen it from that perspective, but it is sobering when you've been around the realities of a bad incident.

EDIT: Pretty thankful I've not had first hand experience of a serious incident involving a child.
 
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Housey said:
Speed, is not a cause, it is however a massive impact on outcome
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there's really no point in having a conversation then if you don't believe speed is a cause.
Housey said:
It's fine if you don't agree with me, I can live with that, but at least quote me correctly with context.
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i have quoted you correctly, despite what the rest of your posts may contain (and some of it is a bit whataboutery) you've stated on several occasions now speed isn't a relevant factor in crashes. granted i missed the bit in one of your posts about agreeing that more speed = more risk of serious harm should a crash occur so for that i apologise.
 
Dis86 said:
Still waiting for a single source from those arguing speeding doesn't cause accidents. Just one.
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i'd bet good money you won't get one, at least not one that's remotely accurate.

folk on here seem to be taking it personally when others point out that speed is a major contributing factor to the chance of a fatality occurring when a car crashes, or that speed can have be a relevant factor in a crash happening in the first place. so you're seeing a lot of whataboutery, silliness and in some instances just plain nonsense. i still can't my head round gibbos - if i'm tired i'll drive faster than the speed limits in order to get to my destination quicker. and then has the silliness to claim most of the problems we have on UK roads are a a lack of common sense. i'm sure there's irony in there somewhere.
 
Thekwango said:
there's really no point in having a conversation then if you don't believe speed is a cause.

i have quoted you correctly, despite what the rest of your posts may contain (and some of it is a bit whataboutery) you've stated on several occasions now speed isn't a relevant factor in crashes. granted i missed the bit in one of your posts about agreeing that more speed = more risk of serious harm should a crash occur so for that i apologise.
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I suggest we move on. :)
 
Housey said:
I suggest we move on. :)
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certainly. we're both in agreement that the greater the speed when a crash occurs the worse the outcome (usually) for those involved, apologies i didn't pick up on that earlier btw.

what do you want to move on to though? your belief that speed doesn't play a factor in actually causing a crash? you queried me on that earlier and i said that wasn't the point i was trying to make, which was correct at the time. but now we're on the same page regarding my first point we can merrily move on to your belief speed doesn't play a factor in actually causing a crash. which i again disagree with. quite a lot of studies seem to indicate speed is quite often a factor (at least one has been posted a few posts back) don't suppose you've got any ones to back up your belief - and that's not a smart arse gotcha type question, it's a genuine one. i'd be very interested to read some stats. don't need any that focus on mechanical failures or the likes, just need something that shows speed doesn't play a part in a crash.
 
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Housey said:
You are transfixed on the debate you want to have.

If speed is the key issue in safety, what is your view on air travel with their crazy 500+ mph cruising speeds.
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What are the chances of surviving a 500mph plane crash?

Nasher said:
It will drain the battery quicker and that energy comes from somewhere. Probably from burning gas...

Also they still make just as much road noise, which is also considered an emission. Especially the larger ones, they make a lot of it due to the weight.
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Oh Nasher, please never change, your constant crusade of misinformation against EVs is wildly entertaining, and I'm sure your Saudi and other OPEC overlords are very appreciative :cry:

In case you actually believe your own drivel however:

Yes, you're correct, it does use more electricity, however, while gas is the highest single source of electricity production in the UK, it only accounts for 38.5% of the total. Renewables (including nuclear) are at 54.6%, with the remaining 6.9% made up of imports and coal.

So ignoring any other factors, it's most likely that the extra energy used is generated by a renewable source. Of course in reality, many EV drivers will have a dedicated EV tariff, such as Octopus Go, which is 100% renewable, or will have their own solar panels, so this skews it even further towards the renewable side.

As far as road noise goes - yup, they do make road noise. So do ICE cars. If you're trying to suggest that the road noise from an EV is somehow louder than the road noise from an ICE along with the engine noise on top, then I would advise going to specsavers (they do hearing aids too you know :p)

Of course both points are moot, since neither of them bare any relevance to localised air pollution, which is what is being discussed.

I know you're desperate to bash on EVs at any opportunity you get, but please do try to keep up :rolleyes:
 
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