RAM watercooling, what are your numbers?

derlabzs · 27 Apr 2023 at 14:38

Hi all, have any you guys watercooled your ram sticks? If so, what sort of thermals did you use to have before and after in the case your sticks have temp. sensors?
It's a "bit" of gimmick move but I won't adhere to 7000 series, so I am maxing out whatever I can so I can have some fun stuff in the upcoming holiday.

Currently I've got cpu (5800x3d) + gpu (7900 xtx) with ZMT, 3x360mm in a o11d xl + a alphacool 1260mm.

Reason is, I'm currently running some bdie DR 3800 cl16-8(rw)-15(rd)-13-26-39, with good secondary/tertiary and tRFC 266 at 1.47V, but I want to have some more fun with higher voltage to perhaps tight even further going cl15 gdm off, hence the watercooler ram wish.

But all reviews/benchs I've seen around just mention temperatures after having the block installed, not before, so there's no much ground to measure if there's enough temperature drop for me to drain, cut some zmt, mess, etc etc. I even replied to some reddit/youtube threads but it's been few days and none got back to me.

My current temps are around 52-54C while stress testing the ram, 36 idle, and around 45C while gaming.

Another reason is, well, I am able to play games while the 7900xtx is pushing 450w, with fans at 25% whisper silent, junction temp does not even break 65C. The only reason I need to crank up the fans is to have some extra airtflow in the case to cool down the 2x ram sticks in it. Having the ram block (if effective) would net me a virtually silent machine - or I could just dial down the timings getting around 65ns, but I rather stick with the current 59ns.

Any thoughts? Much appreciated.

clone · 27 Apr 2023 at 20:31

Done it years ago and it was a waste of time tbh, as long as there is air moving over the ram it will be OK, I've got my aio fans blowing cold air inside the case and one fan blows over the ram area, also my motherboard has a fan bracket that I could use but I'm not.

derlabzs · 27 Apr 2023 at 20:37

Fully understand, and I agree, a fan blowing over the sticks would do but that would break aesthetics. Long time ago I used to use a great bracket from Zalman, I even thought about finding another one but again it will ruin the looks of it.
Anyhow, I've ordered some Bykski block + vests for the sticks, gonna update the thread with results.

clone · 1 May 2023 at 11:12

Looking forward to see how you get along.

Wing-Man · 2 May 2023 at 07:30

RAM water-cooling is pointless for anything other than looks

Wing-Man · 2 May 2023 at 07:32

Thomasck said:
The only reason I need to crank up the fans is to have some extra airtflow in the case to cool down the 2x ram sticks in it. Having the ram block (if effective) would net me a virtually silent machine

yer all the other parts of the Motherboard that 100% rely on passive air don't even matter do they.
ALL systems need airflow

SpudMaster · 2 May 2023 at 09:52

Even if you are able to push your RAM further or tighten timing more you won't notice the difference in games. I run my RAM at 14.14.14.28 @ 3600mhz with secondary and tertiary timings tweaked. I can also run my RAM at 3800mhz with the same timings just increased voltage. Couldn't tell any difference in games so decided the increased performance wasn't worth the increased in voltage.

Wing-Man · 2 May 2023 at 09:53

The ram will fail before you max out temps of the sticks

derlabzs · 2 May 2023 at 12:51

Wing-Man said:
RAM water-cooling is pointless for anything other than looks

any numbers to add something to the thread?

Wing-Man said:
yer all the other parts of the Motherboard that 100% rely on passive air don't even matter do they.
ALL systems need airflow

Look at the scenario. The rig is totally silent, due to voltage and timings the ram is running at about 48C, it can be lower. Stress testing throws errors due to thermals at 1.55V. Adding a fan directly on top of the sticks sorts the issue. Adding a fan with a bracket will break aesthetics, plus fan noise which the rig currently does not have any (3x360 + 1x1260 rads).. The other components (given beefy vrm, etc) are pretty much fine in terms of thermals. There is AF, 10x120mm are taking care of that even at only 25%. The whole point of the thread is to know if someone has done it here, and what was the final result.

SpudMaster said:
Even if you are able to push your RAM further or tighten timing more you won't notice the difference in games. I run my RAM at 14.14.14.28 @ 3600mhz with secondary and tertiary timings tweaked. I can also run my RAM at 3800mhz with the same timings just increased voltage. Couldn't tell any difference in games so decided the increased performance wasn't worth the increased in voltage.

That's personal preference. Going from CL19 tRFC 666 to CL16 tFRC 280 does yield and is numerically visible in games, not that I keep my eyes on the FPS meter but it does increase performance. Is not a matter of fps master race, is about taking what I can out of the system as I won't upgrade to 7000, so I am looking what else I can to do with the rig in the meantime. You probably can't tell what's the difference of your ram in games, but then, run benchmarks, check the difference, create a excel spreadsheet, compare, post it in the "official thread" of your gpu in you favorite forum.. That's the point.. It probably won't be worthy to you, you probably aren't into benchmarks, you probably don't care, and don't want to waste time with those things.. But I do.. See me as a guy with some time in my hands right now that wants to try something new, ram watercooling, that's all.

Wing-Man said:
The ram will fail before you max out temps of the sticks

I don't know what to answer here. In 20 years building, gaming on PCs I never managed to do that.

Wing-Man · 2 May 2023 at 12:58

Thomasck said:
I don't know what to answer here. In 20 years building, gaming on PCs I never managed to do that.

thats the point, no need for water.
it dose look good. but dose nothing

Wing-Man · 2 May 2023 at 13:04

Thomasck said:
I'm currently running some bdie DR 3800 cl16-8(rw)-15(rd)-13-26-39, with good secondary/tertiary and tRFC 266 at 1.47V,

lets do somthing hear and try to help.
What ram? the full model number please
what are the main timing?

my ram is at 3800Mhz 16/16/16/36 @ 1.35v
its a 3200mhz kit i just set XMP and adjusted the timings and it running faster and tighter thats your ram and you need 1.47v

you could have poor ram or the wrong ram, remember you get crap Bdie too

derlabzs · 2 May 2023 at 14:25

@Wing-Man the kit is a F4-3600C16-16GTZN, that was the best I could find (I know there's a CL14 too but could not find in the UK) to "max out" the rig and stick with it until 8000 series. There was also the option of getting a 4000 CL19 (my previous kit, 2x8gb, also sam bdie), which I got two different and none were sam bdie.

ATM I am running the timings below, not what I posted previously due to thermals only, but the kit is already doing sub 60ns, so not bad considering I just touched trfc and fclk.

If you have any insight in regards termination block and cad bus block I'd be more than happy to read it all. Apart from procODT there's no much out there besides Veii's, and The Stilt's findinds.

I can probably to tRAS 30, tRC 46, tFAW 16 straight off the bat. Then tRRDS tRRDL 4/4 too. Followed by tWTRS tWTRL 4/10 and tRDRDSCL tWRWRSCL 3/3 or 2/2. The tRDRDs and tWRWR have too much mixed information around, so I just tone them down to the point where or it gets unstable, or, there's no increase in performance.

EDIT

By changing just tRAS and tRC the kit is now doing sub 59ns. Not bad. Can't really stress test know but should be fine at that voltage. Gonna try later.

RSR · 2 May 2023 at 18:57

Wing-Man said:
RAM water-cooling is pointless for anything other than looks

That's not true but at the same time its nothing a fan can't be fixed, well other than DDR5 without a thermal pad on the PMIC

You can see this by running something like Y-Cruncher VST or TM5 Extreme1 and you get random errors 30mins+ into the test.

I'll give you two examples:

A: DDR4 - Samsung B-Die gets very sensitive and starts to flip bits when it hits around 45/50c when pushing tight timings including tREFI.

B: DDR5 - Hynix M/A Die these get very sensitive over 45c, pushing tREFI over 65536+ and a few other timings.

It's why I use Bitspower WB's on my G.Skill DDR5 sticks, as I can run them 247 with a maxed-out tREFI as they never go over 40c now

derlabzs · 2 May 2023 at 19:17

@RSR thanks for the input. That sort of thermals you had before the waterblock?

RSR · 2 May 2023 at 19:35

Thomasck said:
@RSR thanks for the input. That sort of thermals you had before the waterblock?

If I used my G.Skill Trident Z 7800 kit as an example, as I have 2 sets of them one with a block and one without, as some ballpark figures

7800 - Running at XMP without a fan 50 to 60+ using VST / TM5
7800 - Running at XMP a fan is around ~50c using VST / TM5
8200 - Fails a VST/TM5 test as they hit 60C+
8200 - BP WB Installed - the same test, I rarely see them going over 40c

This won't be the same for everyone as these are pretty high-end kits, kits which use lower voltage will perform better or cases which have active airflow on them

Wing-Man · 2 May 2023 at 19:59

RSR said:
A: DDR4 - Samsung B-Die gets very sensitive and starts to flip bits when it hits around 45/50c when pushing tight timings including tREFI.

so if you was pumping 1.47v into some ddr4 Bdie for the same results you buy ram off the shelf... would you put a block on them if you see 45c under gaming load, on a system that's only used or gaming.
or would you maybe back off voltage a little and work on your setting a little more(the OP says he's been sloppy)

also this is on a CPU that really doesn't care about ram speed or timing becuse of the 3D V-Cache

RSR · 2 May 2023 at 20:08

Wing-Man said:
so if you was pumping 1.47v into some ddr4 Bdie for the same results you buy ram off the shelf... would you put a block on them if you see 45c under gaming load, on a system that's only used or gaming.
or would you maybe back off voltage a little and work on your setting a little more.

also this is on a CPU that really doesn't care about ram speed or timing becuse of the 3D V-Cache

Normally around ~1.45 on DDR4 (Samsung B-Die) is about around when they start getting too hot, again it depends on how much active airflow on them there is. I do have a couple of G.Skill kits which run 1.55 stock (4000C14 kits) which do run very hot out the box on XMP values but as they have a low tREFI they run fine but start bumping that tREFI and they soon fall over.

On DDR4, as there is no PMIC you can make do with a simple fan to cool them but that said, again another cavitate, it depends on the platform used. As you have a lot more options on an Intel platform for RAM tuning than on an equal AM4 platform.

derlabzs · 9 May 2023 at 15:57

The bykski block is in place, and so far after 45 minutes of anta777 extreme I can say it dropped +-20C, from 51-54C to 32-33C so far.

Wing-Man · 9 May 2023 at 16:39

So in programs that just use ram and no other part of your system your super. Load up the full systems for 45m and report back.

There will be a drop in temps that’s a no brainier, also let us know your next max ram oc

derlabzs · 9 May 2023 at 16:47

That's not necessary, nobody runs a ram stress test (tm5 w/ good profile or karhu) along with occt or furmark.
I wanted lower temperatures to push the ram futher, and I got it. Now I can increase the voltage even further, and tight the timings even more without worrying about being above 50C.

It does not look like it was a "no brainer" to you, as above you wrote "RAM water-cooling is pointless for anything other than looks". -20C is not pointless, IMO.

Edit

To add, playing Tarkov it now sits at 31C, rather than around 44-50C like before.

edit 2

playing a long session get the ram to 40c, stills less than before, but there's almost no AF along the case as the fans are all at 25%