Mortgage Rate Rises

robj20 said:
Again loss into YOUR house. My boiler is in the garage/utility room.
I agree there are certain efficiency losses with central heating using a combi, mines not too bad only the absolute coldest days does it max out it's modulation.
But a system boiler/setup is a lot more costly I doubt I'd make the money back there.

Personally I think rather than just guess that everyone's demands are the same it's best to fit the system that suites the household. Not just one system or another "sucks".
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You made the point it was greener, when it distinctly isn't that black and white. A lot of ilinformed folk having to refit tanks to meet extension requirements or solar benefits. We will soon go all electric or ground source so one way or another, tanks will be back.
 
Sythe79 said:
that's some revisionism right there, the government didn't give them any money, 1.1 trillion in loans and underwriting doesn't really count as giving I guess. just a small loan to start a business.

some of the banks didn't take loans directly but benefited from broader cash injections and obviously from the domino effect that would have happened if the most exposed banks had gone down.

you're right there was nothing free market about it, and now the banks are creaming in profits off the misery of the general populace "the free market" excuse shouldn't protect them from paying their share.
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Again your conflating stuff here.
The government didn't give them money as in "here you go fella", they created liquidity. Mostly by swapping good but illiquid assets for cash.
Think of it like remortgaging your house due to a cash issue.

The main issue was a liquidity crisis sitting on top of a asset valuation crisis.
The asset valuations issue was real but the liquidity was what could have brought the whole global system crashing down.
This review is worth looking at. 10 years on.
It repeatedly goes on about liquidity.

express.adobe.com

The financial crisis - 10 years on

See the story
express.adobe.com express.adobe.com
 
delta0 said:
Mine is 88.5% at max load and 98.7% at low load (30% of max).
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Yes they seem to apply some blended calcs.
But again there is no basic difference in efficiency for system, combis nor conventional boilers. All modern ones are pretty much in the 93-94% range with a few outliers.
Again the system and conventional can in theory be better as they are slightly simpler than combis but virtually no manufacturers (apart from one I listed) really bother to make the boilers that would take that advantage.

And again, its not about efficiency, the benefit of system is real world usage, especially in a busy house.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Yes they seem to apply some blended calcs.
But again there is no basic difference in efficiency for system, combis nor conventional boilers. All modern ones are pretty much in the 93-94% range with a few outliers.
Again the system and conventional can in theory be better as they are slightly simpler than combis but virtually no manufacturers (apart from one I listed) really bother to make the boilers that would take that advantage.

And again, its not about efficiency, the benefit of system is real world usage, especially in a busy house.
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This is what I’m curious about as you keep saying in real world usage. I get instant heat from mine and no issues when showering and having the heating on for example. The flow rate is good and my gas bills are really low. I know I have a pretty high end boiler so perhaps this is not the case of the lower ones but for me it’s a big step up from anything I’ve had before and I’ve had tank systems. I’m not putting down tank system but this for me has been flawless.
 
I wasn't getting into the nuanced argument about whether loans and underwriting is giving or not, it's a 15-year-old argument some people will spin however they want that's boring, it was more the fact that the banks make profit so what free market attitude is utter rubbish,

OK we regulated them out of trouble in 2008, maybe we should regulate the people out of some of the trouble they are in right now at the expense of some of the bank's profit.... is that better ?
 
delta0 said:
This is what I’m curious about as you keep saying in real world usage. I get instant heat from mine and no issues when showering and having the heating on for example. The flow rate is good and my gas bills are really low. I know I have a pretty high end boiler so perhaps this is not the case of the lower ones but for me it’s a big step up from anything I’ve had before and I’ve had tank systems. I’m not putting down tank system but this for me has been flawless.
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When you say tank systems do you mean vented or unvented?

The vast majority compare vented to combis and 100% for the majority you will see significantly lower bills and probably no notable difference in performance.
Most vented are older and hence had quite high losses.

Unvented (or pressurised) have a high capacity of hot water available, to supply multiple outlets at the same time.
Its recommended to go unvented on a larger property (assuming larger means more people using water) since it can cope better if demand is high.

You can get some truly massive combis now but that seems to a bit self defeating in regards efficiency.

Anyway we keep going off topic on this. I don't want any mod wrath ;)
 
Sythe79 said:
I wasn't getting into the nuanced argument about whether loans and underwriting is giving or not, it's a 15-year-old argument some people will spin however they want that's boring, it was more the fact that the banks make profit so what free market attitude is utter rubbish,

OK we regulated them out of trouble in 2008, maybe we should regulate the people out of some of the trouble they are in right now at the expense of some of the bank's profit.... is that better ?
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Dont be silly. They need all that profit to invest in making.....um...more profit.

Also so they can keep lending vast sums of money to everyone and continue to push up house prices , as well as everything else.
 
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delta0 said:
I’m not sure what kind of combi boiler you have used but I’ve had no issues with mine. I get instant hot water and it’s really efficient. I went for a Worcester Bosch greenstar. It’s 94% efficient.
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You can anecdote all you want. The fact is Combis have much worse flow rates than system boilers with pressurized tanks. They are also unable to accommodate electric heating (solar, ground source). So the comment they are "greener" isn't correct.
 
Classic Blue Theme said:
You can anecdote all you want. The fact is Combis have much worse flow rates than system boilers with pressurized tanks. They are also unable to accommodate electric heating (solar, ground source). So the comment they are "greener" isn't correct.
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Like I said mine is great and extremely efficient. I don’t have solar or ground source heating. When I do I’ll for sure see what’s best for me at that time.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
When you are of certain persuasions* yes

*Raging leftie or CT nut job being the top two
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the only person of certain persuasions in the thread so far is you TBH trying to say no REAL money was given to the banks, and it was a good thing. for the banks getting given zero money, the 10+ years of austerity to pay for it was pretty expensive you know for nothing. maybe it was all a crazy CT tho ;)
 
Sythe79 said:
the only person of certain persuasions in the thread so far is you TBH trying to say no REAL money was given to the banks, and it was a good thing. for the banks getting given zero money, the 10+ years of austerity to pay for it was pretty expensive you know for nothing. maybe it was all a crazy CT tho ;)
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Did you look at the link I put up earlier?
Which part are you struggling with, the words or the context?

Maybe this will help?

"At its peak, the cash cost of these interventions was £137 billion, paid to the banks in the form of loans and new capital. Most of this outlay has been recouped over the years."
Odd they seem to have repaid 80% approx of the money they were "given"

2008 United Kingdom bank rescue package - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Did you look at the link I put up earlier?
Which part are you struggling with, the words or the context?

Maybe this will help?

"At its peak, the cash cost of these interventions was £137 billion, paid to the banks in the form of loans and new capital. Most of this outlay has been recouped over the years."
Odd they seem to have repaid 80% approx of the money they were "given"

2008 United Kingdom bank rescue package - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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so they've repaid 80%, but they weren't given anything, 80% of what ? is that 80% including the interest on the none existent given money ?

I'm glad you think 30-40 Billion is nothing.

It wasn't just cash, it was the government underwriting a whole host of schemes, that all had to be funded.

Again, what was austerity and over a decade of under funding all of our public services for then if this fictitious money wasn't given ?
 
delta0 said:
Like I said mine is great and extremely efficient. I don’t have solar or ground source heating. When I do I’ll for sure see what’s best for me at that time.
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The reason people keep mentioning ’in the real world’ is because achieving the high flow rates you cite on a combi boiler requires a big boiler, far bigger than you need for heating.

The heat demand for my property is less than 6kw at -5c. A 30kw boiler can’t modulate down low enough to achieve anything like its maximum efficiency most of the time because heat demand just isn’t high enough, that means the boiler starts cycling (on, off, on, off, on, off) and kills its efficiency. So it’s efficient on paper but not in practice.

If you had a hot water tank, you could fit a boiler with half the output and it would operate in it’s efficient range significantly more of the time.

Likewise since the move to condensing boilers, heating engineers have not been re-calibrating radiator sizes for the lower flow temperatures needed for boilers to run in their most efficient modes. So you may have a 94% efficient condensing boiler that never condenses.

Your boiler may be sized well but the vast majority are not, particularly for modern houses with lower heat demands.
 
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Sythe79 said:
so they've repaid 80%, but they weren't given anything, 80% of what ? is that 80% including the interest on the none existent given money ?

I'm glad you think 30-40 Billion is nothing.

It wasn't just cash, it was the government underwriting a whole host of schemes, that all had to be funded.

Again, what was austerity and over a decade of under funding all of our public services for then if this fictitious money wasn't given ?
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Again, give is a very different thing to buying or loaning
When I give you a tenner I don't expect it back
When I loan you a tenner or invest a tenner in your business I expect it back.

The banks were the trigger for that recession. The recession itself was what was behind austerity being enacted.

We (the government) still own assets to sell as well. The final number will likely be no more than a rounding error on the nations accounts.

We have about another £15bn of natwest to sell yet (valuation based on https://news.sky.com/story/natwest-...ate now holds a,its ownership down from 41.4%.)
 
I don’t want to butt in really, but austerity was not the inevitable outcome of 2007/8 it was a political choice by the Tories.

Unfortunately (in retrospect) everyone had had enough of Brown (a bit like the Tories now minus the fruitloops) despite his recovery plan not requiring such deep cuts.
 
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CapitalOne said:
I don’t want to butt in really, but austerity was not the inevitable outcome of 2007/8 it was a political choice by the Tories.

Unfortunately (in retrospect) everyone had had enough of Brown (a bit like the Tories now minus the fruitloops) despite his recovery plan not requiring such deep cuts.
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The narrative was spun that the recession was somehow Labour's fault despite it being a global banking crisis that started in the US. Other than that I think the public just decided Cameron was, in the words of some of my at the time classmates, "a DILF".

Edit: I should emphasise, this really started under Bush. We should see the 2007/8 banking crisis in no uncertain terms as a side effect of republican bank deregulation.
 
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You guys (in home and garden section) suggested I don't get rid of the traditional tank system we have if I remember
 
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