Just what is NVIDIA up to?

[Needmorevram]

"old man shouts at cloud" i had to type that in with my old withered hands.*laughs* anyways.

 

[Joxeon]

If you look at the supposed high end this gen compared to last then each tier your getting less for your money.

A 6900XT had 94% the performance of a 3090
6800XT had 86% while a 3080 had 88% of a 3090
A 3070 had 67% of a 3090 while a 6800 had 77%

Now roll onto the current stuff and you can see

A 7900XTX has 79% the performance of a 4090 while a 4080 has 76%, both offer between what a 6800 non XT delivered last gen.
A 7900XT has 66% of a 4090 so in real terms your getting a card similar to 3070 last gen yet people think £700 is now a good deal.

Yet they want us to pay more money for less performance in real terms.

Source:

Spoiler

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

£429 7700 12GB

Or

£479 4060Ti 16GB

? In fact anyone....?

Also @CAT-THE-FIFTH

The RX 7700 has 48 CU's, 18GB/s memory IC's and probably about 2700Mhz on the clock.
Vs the 6700XT that's 20% more CU's, 12% faster memory and 5% higher clocks, its going to be 20% faster.
At 1440P on this chart that puts it 15% ahead of the 4060Ti, about = to an RX 6800. Or about 45% ahead of an RTX 2070S

With US inflation the 6700XT would be $540 today, $90 less than that and 20% faster, its not bad, the 4060Ti which should have been a 12GB and nothing else is $500 is 16GB form, its 10% faster than the 3060Ti and $100 more expensive, how is that not the argument in this thread?

So what about £800 RTX4070TI vs £900 RX7900XT at launch then? Were you singing the praises of the cheaper Nvidia card? Nope. Why? Because BOTH were overpriced trash at those prices. Where you saying the RTX4070TI was good value because of inflation? It was the performance of the RTX3090 for less money but the RTX3090 was poor value.

What about the RTX4070? Cheaper than the RTX3080 10GB and more VRAM. Where you saying the RTX4070 was good because of inflation? Or you forget the giant thread where many of us(including you) criticised the RTX4070?

You still don't get it - just because one card is slightly better "value" than another doesn't make BOTH cards decent. They can still be overpriced trash and all that inflation rubbish is marketing speak that their PR spreads. Chinese inflation is much less,and almost all components have crashed in price,etc.

There is negative inflation in SSDs,RAM,etc. Shipping costs have crashed too. Chinese production is back at full speed.

Unless that RX7700 is around 30% faster than the RX6700XT/RX6750XT it replaces,what is the point? Has Nvidia and AMD done such a number on people they think 20% improvements are any good? Has the marketing worked so well PCMR expectations have gone down?

How is 20% faster over an RX6700XT a win after 2 and a half years with no VRAM increase,especially when the RX6700XT was overpriced. It was priced at $480,or $80 more than an RTX3060TI.The RX6700XT was 33% faster than an RX5700XT.

RX5700 was under £300 and 52% faster than an RX590.

AMD and Nvidia are greedy companies who don't give a damn so stop defending them and trying to find good in them.

This is exactly what happened when Apple and Samsung had the smartphone market to themselves for a while. Lack of innovation.

This is not coincidence. They want to coexist and milk the market together. I don't think they have 'competed' against one another for a while tbh.

Then you have the defenders of both companies defending the milking together because of technical victories.

Then excuse making about inflation,etc to defend their own team.

Lets look at the Navi 32 based RX7800XT. 60 CUs like the RX6800. The RX6800XT has 72 CUs. The RTX4070 is equal to the RX6800XT.

That means the RX7800XT would need to be clocked 20% faster to match an RX6800XT:

PowerColor AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Pictured, Confirmed Based on "Navi 32"

PowerColor inadvertently released the first pictures of its AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Red Devil graphics card. These pictures confirm that the RX 7800 XT is based on a maxed out version of the "Navi 32" GPU, and not the compact "Navi 31" powering the limited edition RX 7900 GRE. The "Navi 32" is a...

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 21, 2250 MHz, 4608 Cores, 288 TMUs, 128 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2000 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

Basically it is clocked 20% higher so will be an RX6800XT in performance. Even if it clocks slightly higher it will be slightly better at best than an RTX4070 12GB,with more VRAM and worse RT. So another "technical" win,but it isn't because the RTX4070 is poor value. 40% faster than an RTX3060TI for 60% more money.

Also going by the RX7800XT,it would mean AMD will release a card like the RX7700 which will be slightly faster than an RX6700/RX6750XT for the same money. But since the RTX4060TI is trash another technical win.

 

[TNA]

Don't be facetious Nvidia are scumbags but that doesn't make AMD saints - AMD's performance numbers for RDNA3 were complete fabrications and they had to hide their power-efficiency figures in shame when they realised Ada was actually more efficient than RDNA3.

They debuted the 7000-series with big promises for FSR3 which, to this day still haven't been realised, and they launched both 7900XTX and XT at prices that were ridiculously out of touch for what they were delivering - it's the general apathy towards these products that have driven the prices down - not AMD choosing to be magnanimous.

100% this. AMD Radeon is at an all time low in regards to respect and desire from me personally.

They need to do A LOT more than waiting for Nvidia to price their products silly and undercutting them a little.And this is coming from someone that has had more Radeon than GeForce over the years and is not a fan of Jensen.

 

[humbug]

If you look at the supposed high end this gen compared to last then each tier your getting less for your money.

A 6900XT had 94% the performance of a 3090
6800XT had 86% while a 3080 had 88% of a 3090
A 3070 had 67% of a 3090 while a 6800 had 77%

Now roll onto the current stuff and you can see

A 7900XTX has 79% the performance of a 4090 while a 4080 has 76%, both offer between what a 6800 non XT delivered last gen.
A 7900XT has 66% of a 4090 so in real terms your getting a card similar to 3070 last gen yet people think £700 is now a good deal.

Yet they want us to pay more money for less performance in real terms.

Source:

Spoiler

Those charts are the original 7000 series review and no longer relevant.

So what about £800 RTX4070TI vs £900 RX7900XT at launch then? Were you singing the praises of the cheaper Nvidia card? Nope. Why? Because BOTH were overpriced trash at those prices. Where you saying the RTX4070TI was good value because of inflation? It was the performance of the RTX3090 for less money but the RTX3090 was poor value.

What about the RTX4070? Cheaper than the RTX3080 10GB and more VRAM. Where you saying the RTX4070 was good because of inflation? Or you forget the giant thread where many of us(including you) criticised the RTX4070?

You still don't get it - just because one card is slightly better "value" than another doesn't make BOTH cards decent. They can still be overpriced trash and all that inflation rubbish is marketing speak that their PR spreads. Chinese inflation is much less,and almost all components have crashed in price,etc.

There is negative inflation in SSDs,RAM,etc. Shipping costs have crashed too. Chinese production is back at full speed.

Unless that RX7700 is around 30% faster than the RX6700XT/RX6750XT it replaces,what is the point? Has Nvidia and AMD done such a number on people they think 20% improvements are any good? Has the marketing worked so well PCMR expectations have gone down?

How is 20% faster over an RX6700XT a win after 2 and a half years,,especially when the RX6700XT was overpriced. It was priced at $480,or $80 more than an RTX3060TI.The RX6700XT was 33% faster than an RX5700XT.

RX5700 was under £300 and 52% faster than an RX590.

AMD and Nvidia are greedy companies who don't give a damn so stop defending them and trying to find good in them.




Then you have the defenders of both companies defending the milking together because of technical victories.

Then excuse making about inflation,etc to defend their own team.

Lets look at the Navi 32 based RX7800XT. 60 CUs like the RX6800. The RX6800XT has 72 CUs. The RTX4070 is equal to the RX6800XT.

That means the RX7800XT would need to be clocked 20% faster to match an RX6800XT:

PowerColor AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Pictured, Confirmed Based on "Navi 32"

PowerColor inadvertently released the first pictures of its AMD Radeon RX 7800 XT Red Devil graphics card. These pictures confirm that the RX 7800 XT is based on a maxed out version of the "Navi 32" GPU, and not the compact "Navi 31" powering the limited edition RX 7900 GRE. The "Navi 32" is a...

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 21, 2250 MHz, 4608 Cores, 288 TMUs, 128 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2000 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

Basically it is clocked 20% higher so will be an RX6800XT in performance. Even if it clocks slightly higher it will be slightly better at best than an RTX4070 12GB,with more VRAM and worse RT. So another "technical" win,but it isn't because the RTX4070 is poor value. 40% faster than an RTX3060TI for 60% more money.

Also going by the RX7800XT,it would mean AMD will release a card like the RX7700 which will be slightly faster than an RX6700/RX6750XT for the same money. But since the RTX4060TI is trash another technical win.

Again the 7900XT is no longer $900 and its faster now than it was, none of this is relevant now.

 

[humbug]

You two can't make an argument for as it stands now so you keep harping back to what we all agree was bad then, then is not now.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Those charts are the original 7000 series review and no longer relevant.



Again the 7900XT is no longer $900 and its faster now than it was, none of this is relevant now.

It is relevant because,the same is happening to the lower models right now. See what happened? The RX7900XT price had to be slashed because like many were saying it cost too much. They overpriced Zen4(like Zen3) and had to cut prices.

The RX7900XT should have been the RX7800XT at best,at a lower price. Now the same thing is happening with Navi 32 being pushed up one tier.

The Nvidia guys were defending models like the RTX4070,etc because of "technical" victories and inflation. The full Navi 32 should be the RX7700XT not the RX7800XT. Its the same thing Nvidia is doing with the RTX4070 and RTX4070TI. These are technically RTX3060/RTX3060TI class dGPUs.

Yet the RTX4070 started to have price drops and deals in the US mere weeks after the launch.

People criticised Nvidia for upselling the RTX3060TI replacement as the RTX4070. Technically it was a "victory" because it was cheaper than an RTX3080 and had more VRAM. It was also 20% faster than the overpriced RTX3070TI which is $675(using inflation) so is "technically" $75 cheaper and matched the $790(adjusted for inflation) RTX3080 whilst being $190 cheaper.

The $800 RTX4070TI matches the $2085(using inflation) RTX3090TI,so massive bargain,right? You can also extend that to the RTX4060TI. The RTX3060TI would be $470(adjusted for inflation from 2020),so the RTX4060TI is $70 cheaper and 10% faster in rasterised and 15% faster in RT. Technical victory,right?

You can't use an inflation excuse,otherwise you could apply it to the RTX4070 and RTX4070TI and make them sound amazing. Even the RTX4060TI looks passable.

Maybe Navi 32 will be some amazing 3GHZ monster of a dGPU,thrashing the RX6800XT and making the RTX4070 look useless. The RX7700XT ends up sailing past an RX6800.

But after seeing AMD marketing slides with the RX7900 series,I have no confidence in them as a company. I would love to be proven wrong. And Nvidia is now obsessed with AI. Intel is still stumbling around. No wonder that most of Steam barely has dGPUs faster than a console. None of these companies seem to care anymore.

The consumer dGPU and CPU markets are going down the drain because people are not seeing value in upgrading.But people's pay is going up below inflation - even most saving accounts don't even give you the full interest rate either. It's upto Intel,AMD and Nvidia to create value. But they are obsessed with margins and the stock market.

Just like Apple and Samsung were before Chinese companies entered the smartphone market. Both were barely pushing each other,because it was easier not to rock the boat.

 

[Joxeon]

Those charts are the original 7000 series review and no longer relevant.

With HW unboxed saying they saw a 3% average improvement it doesn’t really change much though, a 7900XT goes from being 1% worse in real terms than a 3070 to 2% better, besides they didn’t even use up to date drivers for all the other cards.

 

[RavenXXX2]

AMD cpu division is great, gpu on the other hand.

 

[Calin Banc]

4080 was 20% cheaper and 30% faster than a 3090, surely that's an awesome, pro consumer move from nVIDIA, right?

I mean considering aaaaall that inflation, all those R&D costs, aaaall those shipping costs, aaaaall that "they're a company working for profit, they deserve it"! giving us that much extra performance at that signifincat lower price is a win, right, RIGHT?

Oh, probably 16GB of vRAM are not enough, because, you know, all that DS bullsh*t. Right? )


Sarcasm off.

 

[Needmorevram]

Christ man you overpaid for your 4080. we get it.

 

[ICDP]

They pushed everything up a tier in name but then for AMD each tier also performs a tier below where it did last gen so it’s really a 2 tier swing.

The naming isn’t the important part, they could call it the rainbow unicorn edition for all that matters. It is the price per performance increase that matters.

7900 XT is 35% - 45% faster than the 6800 XT and was bumped in price by £300. So AMD have moved up one tier on price/perf NOT two.

The RTX 4080 is 35% - 45% faster than the 3080 and was priced £550 more at £1200. That is a two tier increase in price.

 

[Calin Banc]

Christ man you overpaid for your 4080. we get it.

Neah, man. It was a great offer. 14% faster than 3090ti that was $2000. It was a steal!

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Whats worse is that all these companies are pushing RT,whilst pushing rubbish improvements. One of the most intensive effects should come with big improvements each generation? Apparently not. Because mining,because AI,because they need a gold toilet.

When we had games like Crysis we had the 8800GT and HD3850 which offered amazing price/performance.

Then PCMR goes,consoles suck so much. The 8800GT/HD3850 made the consoles look slow in terms of GPU power barely two years after they launched and were cheaper.Look at Steam and a huge percentage are still on dGPUs as good or worse compared to a three year old console. What sucks is how Nvidia/AMD are basically using technical victories,whilst at the same time meaning it will take years to even double performance in the mainstream.

No wonder when most of the sub £500 stack for the last 7 years has been basically moving deck chairs around on the deck of the Titanic.

 

[ICDP]

Whats worse is that all these companies are pushing RT,whilst pushing rubbish improvements. One of the most intensive effects should come with big improvements each generation? Apparently not. Because mining,because AI,because they need a gold toilet.

When we had games like Crysis we had the 8800GT and HD3850 which offered amazing price/performance.

Then PCMR goes,consoles suck so much. The 8800GT/HD3850 made the consoles look like a job in terms of GPU power barely two years after they launched and were cheaper.Look at Steam and a huge percentage are still on dGPUs as good or worse compared to a three year old console. What sucks is how Nvidia/AMD are basically using technical victories,whilst at the same time meaning it will take years to even double performance in the mainstream.

No wonder when most of the sub £500 stack for the last 7 years has been basically moving deck chairs around on the deck of the Titanic.

Yep totally agree. The top tier GPU 4090 is now at the ludicrously normalised price of ~£1500 and everything else below that have been marginal increases for ludicrous MSRP.

Obviously everyone has a different red lines of what they deem acceptable and I think personally £800 for a 4080/7900 XTX class GPU. I am also happy at 7900 XT performance for the £635 it effectively cost me. The fact it took so long for people to start voting with their wallet after all the bull crap from Nvidia over the years is perplexing. Even AMD are trying to follow Nvidia’s lead but thankfully they are much more likely to take the ******* hint.

Nvidia on the other hand are arrogant condescending ********* and are far less likely to take the not so subtle hint.

 

[humbug]

It is relevant because,the same is happening to the lower models right now. See what happened? The RX7900XT price had to be slashed because like many were saying it cost too much. They overpriced Zen4(like Zen3) and had to cut prices.

The RX7900XT should have been the RX7800XT at best,at a lower price. Now the same thing is happening with Navi 32 being pushed up one tier.

The Nvidia guys were defending models like the RTX4070,etc because of "technical" victories and inflation. The full Navi 32 should be the RX7700XT not the RX7800XT. Its the same thing Nvidia is doing with the RTX4070 and RTX4070TI. These are technically RTX3060/RTX3060TI class dGPUs.

Yet the RTX4070 started to have price drops and deals in the US mere weeks after the launch.

People criticised Nvidia for upselling the RTX3060TI replacement as the RTX4070. Technically it was a "victory" because it was cheaper than an RTX3080 and had more VRAM. It was also 20% faster than the overpriced RTX3070TI which is $675(using inflation) so is "technically" $75 cheaper and matched the $790(adjusted for inflation) RTX3080 whilst being $190 cheaper.

The $800 RTX4070TI matches the $2085(using inflation) RTX3090TI,so massive bargain,right? You can also extend that to the RTX4060TI. The RTX3060TI would be $470(adjusted for inflation from 2020),so the RTX4060TI is $70 cheaper and 10% faster in rasterised and 15% faster in RT. Technical victory,right?

You can't use an inflation excuse,otherwise you could apply it to the RTX4070 and RTX4070TI and make them sound amazing. Even the RTX4060TI looks passable.

Maybe Navi 32 will be some amazing 3GHZ monster of a dGPU,thrashing the RX6800XT and making the RTX4070 look useless. The RX7700XT ends up sailing past an RX6800.

But after seeing AMD marketing slides with the RX7900 series,I have no confidence in them as a company. I would love to be proven wrong. And Nvidia is now obsessed with AI. Intel is still stumbling around. No wonder that most of Steam barely has dGPUs faster than a console. None of these companies seem to care anymore.

The consumer dGPU and CPU markets are going down the drain because people are not seeing value in upgrading.But people's pay is going up below inflation - even most saving accounts don't even give you the full interest rate either. It's upto Intel,AMD and Nvidia to create value. But they are obsessed with margins and the stock market.

Just like Apple and Samsung were before Chinese companies entered the smartphone market. Both were barely pushing each other,because it was easier not to rock the boat.

I'm not going to engage anymore until we talk about Just what are Nvidia up to.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yep totally agree. The top tier GPU 4090 is now at the ludicrously normalised price of ~£1500 and everything else below that have been marginal increases for ludicrous MSRP.

Obviously everyone has a different red lines of what they deem acceptable and I think personally £800 for a 4080/7900 XTX class GPU. I am also happy at 7900 XT performance for the £635 it effectively cost me. The fact it took so long for people to start voting with their wallet after all the bull crap from Nvidia over the years is perplexing. Even AMD are trying to follow Nvidia’s lead but thankfully they are much more likely to take the ******* hint.

Nvidia on the other hand are arrogant condescending ********* and are far less likely to take the not so subtle hint.

They all want to be the next Apple,but even they are finding it difficult with sales collapsing.But almost all of this growth in the tech market has been funded by the trillions of USD of QE over the last 15 years.It has made corporate and personal borrowing abnormally cheap. The Pandemic had huge amounts of printed money being pushed upwards and now its going through the system causing more problems.

This nonsense of infinite margin and profit increases in a finite market speculative funded by debt,is the real issue here. Look at the same "investment houses" who own shares in many of the large tech companies - is it a wonder the tech companies all do the same thing and screw over the small guy?

This is why they are chasing after the next best thing. The moment the money spigots go dry a lot of industries will have to enter reality.

 

[Joxeon]

Neah, man. It was a great offer. 14% faster than 3090ti that was $2000. It was a steal!

Until you realise a 3080 was 15% faster than a $2500 Titan RTX and went for £650 with a game included.

 

[t2na]

 

[DarrenM343]

The naming isn’t the important part, they could call it the rainbow unicorn edition for all that matters. It is the price per performance increase that matters.

7900 XT is 35% - 45% faster than the 6800 XT and was bumped in price by £300. So AMD have moved up one tier on price/perf NOT two.

The RTX 4080 is 35% - 45% faster than the 3080 and was priced £550 more at £1200. That is a two tier increase in price.

But don't forget the extra memory you now get with the 80 vs what you got before , which was just enough for current games. 'Just enough' is now passed down to the 70 series. Can't expect that for free . It's really the 4080.5, overdelivering on the memory side of things vs the 3080 .
Joking aside,I hope things do improve a bit for the 5000 series. I don't think many have an issue with the 4090 as most of us don't really need that anyway but other options could be better especially for the £.